DBMM Forum
General Category => Rules Questions => Topic started by: loki223 on August 25, 2007, 06:57:14 AM
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My eyes are going buggy from trudging through this book....lol
Heres the question.
page 37 3rd from the last bullit.
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (s) troops that score equal or more while either (a) shooting, or in close combat in their own bound and either (b) foot fighting foot or (c) mounted fighting any enemy.
Who's bound???
the "any troops" bound or the "(s)" troops bound???
example: LH (s) charge LH (o). the (o) roll a sum of 6 and the (s) roll a sum of 8. Do the (O) take a -1 or is it in the next bound that they would take the -1????
wow! depending on where you place the inflection while reading this it could be taken a few different ways. someone help please.
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what would be the factors of PS (S) upslope (GH) against BD (I) charging in?
I came up with the PS as Having a 4 before rolling a die. is this correct?
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The Ps(S) would be base factor 2
and as it is the Blades bound it (the Ps) would get a extra +1 for "any of its front edge upslope of all its opponents"
Given it a final factor before rolling the dice of 3
Not sure how you get the extra 1 from your example.
Grading does not come into play until after you have rolled the dice and compare totals.
So this combat is Blade 4 Ps 3
lets assume the Bd roll 1 :(
the Ps roll 2
its now Bd 5 Ps 5
Now grading
The Bd are I and take a -1 for I troops equal or less
They (Bd) also take a -1 for the Ps being (S) and their opponents being (S) have scored equal or more
So combat finishes after grading Bd 5-1-1 =3 Ps 5
The Bd recoil
Regards
David Mather
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Heres the question.
page 37 3rd from the last bullit.
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (s) troops that score equal or more while either (a) shooting, or in close combat in their own bound and either (b) foot fighting foot or (c) mounted fighting any enemy.
Who's bound???
the "any troops" bound or the "(s)" troops bound???
example: LH (s) charge LH (o). the (o) roll a sum of 6 and the (s) roll a sum of 8. Do the (O) take a -1 or is it in the next bound that they would take the -1????
wow! depending on where you place the inflection while reading this it could be taken a few different ways. someone help please.
Easiest to answer your example - I struggled with this sentence and used the QRS until I learned it
Its the LH(S) bound
The S have won 8-6
The O will take a -1 finishing up with 8-5 and flee as they have lost to LH of higher grade
Th O take a -1 because
-1 LH(O) whose opponents are {LH(S) that score equal or more (the LH(S) did 8-6) and are in their own bound (its the LH(S) bound) and are mounted (LH(S) are mounted)}
or sixth box down on QRS
Regards
David Mather
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thank you again.
I am sure there will be ore questions soon.
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With regard to grading factors, I don't bother to read the rules. I only look at the Quick Reference Chart near the back of the rules. I find that a lot simpler to read.
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Unfortunately, in at least one instance, I think it is incorrect, or at least inconsistent with the body of the rules.. if only I could remember what it was.
Doug
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If you do find a situation where the QRS is inconsistent with the body of the rules, please let me know asap and I will update the version on the website and also let Caliver know. I had hoped it was OK as both Phil and I checked it before publication.
Thanks
Toby
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are there any current changes to the original QRC? I only have the one from the main rulebook and no errata as of yet.
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I think it's in the (S) ratings - I remember coming across it a few weeks ago but trying to figure it out made my head hurt!! >:(
the rules have
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops that score equal of more while either (a) shooting; or in close combat in their own bound and either (b)foot fighting foot or (c) mounted fighting any enemy
but the QRS section that appears to cover this has the -1 applying in an enemy bound??
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which is it?
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Well I'm not sure I'm reading it right in the first place!! :o
but I always take the rulebook over a QRS unless the author fesses up otherwise.
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The -1 applies in the own bound of the opponents.
As I said Phil checked the QRS (repeatedly) and signed it off as exactly reflecting the rules. I just tried to convert his Barkerese into something that I could use as a checklist.
There are some other versions on the www.dbmm.org.uk website as well - I have no opinion as to their accuracy though.
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ok
so the -1 is in the opponents of the (s) troops bound?
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OK - now I'm confused - the rules text states (to me at least) says the -1 applies in the bound of the troops who are fighting AGAINST the (S) troops - but Toby says that it applies in the bound OF the (S) troops.
If Toby is right then the wording in the rules is just crap (sorry toby - I know you didn't write it)
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OK - now I'm confused - the rules text states (to me at least) says the -1 applies in the bound of the troops who are fighting AGAINST the (S) troops - but Toby says that it applies in the bound OF the (S) troops.
If Toby is right then the wording in the rules is just crap (sorry toby - I know you didn't write it)
Hi
The wording is not ideal but Toby is right
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while either
(a) shooting;
or in close combat in their own bound and either
(b)foot fighting foot or
(c) mounted fighting any enemy
If you brake it down it would read:-
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while Shooting
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while foot fighting foot
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while mounted fighting any enemy
So if your element is fight (S) and the (S) scores more or equal you get -1 if you come under A,B or C
Hope this help
Best Regards
Geoff
PS I have put an Exel grading table to make it easier on www.dbmm.org.uk (http://www.dbmm.org.uk)
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If you brake it down it would read:-
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while Shooting
Yep - no problem with that one
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while foot fighting foot
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while mounted fighting any enemy
You haven't addressed whose bound it is, which is where my confusion comes in......
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If you brake it down it would read:-
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while Shooting
Yep - no problem with that one
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while foot fighting foot
-1 if any troops whose opponents are Superior (S) troops
that score equal of more while mounted fighting any enemy
You haven't addressed whose bound it is, which is where my confusion comes in......
shooting is in both bounds
"in close combat in their own bound" meaning the Superior (S) troops bound
So it's the Superior (S) bound
or to put another way:-
its -1 to enemy troops who are fighting (S) in the (S)'s bound
If you look at the table I've done is dose make it clearer it's at:- http://dbmm.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=53&Itemid=35 (http://dbmm.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=53&Itemid=35)
Best Regards
Geoff
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Hope this table makes is more clearer
Regards
Geoff
(http://www.maws.org.uk\dbmmdata\DBMM-Grading-Table.gif)
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I do my best to interpret it :)
Check what the other S grading QRS's come up with and see what they think.
I did get caught by one thing on my own QRS last night though - I didn't put in the exeptions for S being shot at by atrillery and war wagons (I think I ran out of space or something).
So its not perfect, but then what is.
I have to say that the new gradings are one of my least favourite parts of the rules.
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Thanks for the new grading table, takes a couple of minutes to get use to it but it is a big improvement on what is provided in the rules.
My first reaction after seeing the table is to wonder why the rules author didn?t do a similar table in the rules. The current text description of grading factors is one of the worse features of the rules. Don?t get me wrong, I like the grading concept, just hate the way they are served up in the rules.
In the next revision of the rules this table should be a ?must? have! Along with re-costing some unit types like Pike. ;D
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someone can actually understand THAT??!! ??? ???
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i just printed it off. hopefully i can follow it. :o