DBMM Forum
General Category => Rules Questions => Topic started by: Blathergut on October 14, 2007, 04:51:58 PM
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The line (p42) that reads: "...immediately pursues straight ahead either (a) its base depth, (b) its base width (80p), or (c) until it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with closer enemy..."
Does this mean the pursuing element has a choice as to which of the three it does?
Or do you follow (a) first, or (b) second, etc.??
And imagine three enemy elements in front of you, the middle one is destroyed...is the destroying element already in "front corner to edge" contact with the remaining enemy elements to either side??...and therefor, doesn't have to pursue any further?
You guys are life-savers!! Thanks for the time with these questions (probably beyond obvious to you!!).
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OK. Firstly they can do any of the a, b or c above that you want to do.
c is only there because there was someone particularly obtuse who argued that if you were 20mm deep and killed someone 15mm deep you were in problems because you had to follow up 20mm but the space was only 15mm deep. Phil thought it was obvious that you just followed up into contact but other people came up with all sorts of wierd and wonderful interpretations.
Its another occasion where Phil's language is very very precise. You may follow up until you make front corner to corner contact. If you are in front corner to corner contact with the element that is fighting the element next to you, you are already in contact with it. You can't make contact with it unless you start out not in contact with it.
So you have to follow up until you reach the corner of an element that you didn't start in contact with.
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thanks!!...you have been a great help
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OK. Firstly they can do any of the a, b or c above that you want to do.
c is only there because there was someone particularly obtuse who argued that if you were 20mm deep and killed someone 15mm deep you were in problems because you had to follow up 20mm but the space was only 15mm deep. Phil thought it was obvious that you just followed up into contact but other people came up with all sorts of wierd and wonderful interpretations.
Its another occasion where Phil's language is very very precise. You may follow up until you make front corner to corner contact. If you are in front corner to corner contact with the element that is fighting the element next to you, you are already in contact with it. You can't make contact with it unless you start out not in contact with it.
So you have to follow up until you reach the corner of an element that you didn't start in contact with.
Toby's answer is absolutely right as the rules as played (and I am sure as they are intended to be played). However, I can see why you asked the question. There is an ambiguity in the rules here. (c) is clearly intended to cover the situation where you hit enemy before you finish your pursuit move. However, where the pursuing element is moving into a gap as soon as he moves 1mm he is technically in front corner to (side) edge contact with the flankers (who are enemy closer than either the pursuing element's base width or base depth).
If I were umpiring I would rule that situation as being side edge to side edge, rather than front corner to side edge, invoking the "spirit of the rules" clause on p45. But, technically... :)
Tim Child
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If I were umpiring I would rule that situation as being side edge to side edge, rather than front corner to side edge, invoking the "spirit of the rules" clause on p45. But, technically... :)
Tim Child
I think there may be a 'get-out clause' as it talks about 'closer enemy' if the definition of closer means 'a shorter distance to line up in legal contact with... " then an element directly ahead will be 'closer' than an element off to the side. That's what I would rule I think.
regards
Doug M.
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So you have to follow up until you reach the corner of an element that you didn't start in contact with.
Interesting. Does it mean I can reach any element within reach? This means 360 p for LH(F)!! :o
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So you have to follow up until you reach the corner of an element that you didn't start in contact with.
Interesting. Does it mean I can reach any element within reach? This means 360 p for LH(F)!! :o
This isn't DBR you know! ;)
Tim Child
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This isn't DBR you know! ;)
I agree DBMM is not DBR but when you're not english and you read such sentence :
(p42) : "...immediately pursues straight ahead either (a) its base depth, (b) its base width (80p), or (c) until it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with closer enemy..."
Point (c) offers me to advance to my maximum mouvement if there's an enemy to contact straight ahead.
c is only there because there was someone particularly obtuse who argued that if you were 20mm deep and killed someone 15mm deep you were in problems because you had to follow up 20mm but the space was only 15mm deep. Phil thought it was obvious that you just followed up into contact but other people came up with all sorts of wierd and wonderful interpretations.
If that's the real reason, why isn't he use something as :
immediately pursues straight ahead either (a) its base depth or (b) its base width (80p). The poursuing mouvement may be shortened if it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with an enemy."
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I agree DBMM is not DBR but when you're not english and you read such sentence :
(p42) : "...immediately pursues straight ahead either (a) its base depth, (b) its base width (80p), or (c) until it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with closer enemy..."
Point (c) offers me to advance to my maximum mouvement if there's an enemy to contact straight ahead.
I agree. I'm not English and that's just what I understand! :(
If that's the real reason, why isn't he use something as :
immediately pursues straight ahead either (a) its base depth or (b) its base width (80p). The poursuing mouvement may be shortened if it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with an enemy."
I agree again. Reading is not so clear for non-English natives, like me :-\
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c is only there because there was someone particularly obtuse who argued that if you were 20mm deep and killed someone 15mm deep you were in problems because you had to follow up 20mm but the space was only 15mm deep. Phil thought it was obvious that you just followed up into contact but other people came up with all sorts of wierd and wonderful interpretations.
If that's the real reason, why isn't he use something as :
immediately pursues straight ahead either (a) its base depth or (b) its base width (80p). The poursuing mouvement may be shortened if it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with an enemy."
Actually, the above was Toby's quote - I wasn't following the DBMM development process at the time that that wording was added in, so can't comment.
There are all sorts of bits of PB's wording that could have been written differently, and I can certainly understand that view that you take of the meaning that it could have. However it's not, as I understand it, the meaning intended.
With that in mind, IMV it's another one (of the many :) ) points that ought to be raised with PB for clarification and added to the list that Toby is compiling on this site.
Tim Child
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There are all sorts of bits of PB's wording that could have been written differently, and I can certainly understand that view that you take of the meaning that it could have. However it's not, as I understand it, the meaning intended.
With that in mind, IMV it's another one (of the many :) ) points that ought to be raised with PB for clarification and added to the list that Toby is compiling on this site.
Tim Child
Any news about it?
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(c) actually reads "until it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with closer enemy;" (my emphasis)
Again it's precise wording - so closer than what? Closer than (a) or (b) - the furthest you get to pursue is a base depth or width - (c) will let you stop at less than that, but doesn't let you go further!!
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(c) actually reads "until it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with closer enemy;" (my emphasis)
Again it's precise wording - so closer than what? Closer than (a) or (b) - the furthest you get to pursue is a base depth or width - (c) will let you stop at less than that, but doesn't let you go further!!
I suggest you pop down to the local school and find a handy dull 8 year old ::)
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There are three options. You choose which you want to do.
David Thompson
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I will add this point to the next version of the Commentary, although I feel that the intent of the rule is obvious and you have to work hard to misinterpret it.
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(c) actually reads "until it makes front edge or front corner to edge contact with closer enemy;" (my emphasis)
Again it's precise wording - so closer than what? Closer than (a) or (b) - the furthest you get to pursue is a base depth or width - (c) will let you stop at less than that, but doesn't let you go further!!
I suggest you pop down to the local school and find a handy dull 8 year old ::)
I refer you to mssg http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/DBMMlist/message/41443 in the list -
Phil states when asked which options you can use for pursuit:
> but when is it which? When is it (b) rather than (a)? Or (c) rather than
> (b)? Does the player
> choose? Do my knights stop after a base depth or do they pursue right into
> the rough?
Your choice of (a) or (b). (c) if you meet enemy first.
Phil
Note the position of the full stop - I'm pretty sure that's what I said too.
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no comment?