DBMM Forum

General Category => Rules Questions => Topic started by: landmeister on May 11, 2008, 10:09:46 AM

Title: Guides
Post by: landmeister on May 11, 2008, 10:09:46 AM
Dear all,

I've finally bought and used my first stratagem...Guides, and I have some questions. I purchased it for a craggy hill to be passed across by LH. The damned peasant got lost, so my LH column got stuck in the middle of impassable terrain  :-[ >:(.

My opponent said that the hill had returned to its original impassable status and as LH can't be there, they were destroyed. I don't think this is the spirit of this rule, but I didn't found any reasoning in the rules to counterbalance his opinion. Finally he let me count my elements as spent  :-\. Not so bad, after all.

Any help about this?

Thank you. 
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: Platypus on May 11, 2008, 10:50:22 AM
You are right. The rules are silent on this.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they were destroyed. Or even spent.

I would rule that they are stuck there for the rest of the game, unable to move.

I think the issue is that you cannot deploy in impassable terrain, or enter it. But being left in the middle of it is a possibility......

G^is,
JohnG




Title: Re: Guides
Post by: landmeister on May 11, 2008, 03:24:10 PM
Oh, How I hate this  :-[ :'( >:(

Thank you after all.
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: Tim Child on May 11, 2008, 11:30:14 PM
You are right. The rules are silent on this.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they were destroyed. Or even spent.

I would rule that they are stuck there for the rest of the game, unable to move.

I think the issue is that you cannot deploy in impassable terrain, or enter it. But being left in the middle of it is a possibility......

G^is,
JohnG


Very sensible interp., and was my instant view of how I'd rule it in competition.  One for the Commentary, Toby?

Tim Child
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: MikeCampbell on May 12, 2008, 02:55:38 AM
Quote
My opponent said that the hill had returned to its original impassable status and as LH can't be there, they were destroyed.

I agree with the others.

And your opponent's reasoning is wrong too - the LH CAN  be there - via a guides mechanism!
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: landmeister on May 12, 2008, 04:36:45 PM
Now a new question.

Let's suppose that the damned peasant didn't cheat me. It is supposed that my LH moves across the impassable hill at full speed because the guide counts as a road. But what would happen if an enemy would contact me before going out? The stratagem says that "...passage counts as if along a road."

If we then read how roads work we see that "Combat counts as in the going on its edges". Hos does combat count in impassable terrain?  ???

Thank you again.
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: Tim Child on May 12, 2008, 09:46:09 PM
CH are a species of difficult going (see p.19), so the LH will be at -2 for fighting in DGo.  They will also suffer a further -1 for "troops or terrain already in contact with its rear edge or rear corner would prevent any recoil". They will suffer combat outcomes as if in DGo too. 

Tim Child
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: MikeCampbell on May 13, 2008, 02:45:26 AM
Yeah - don't get caught!!
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: landmeister on May 13, 2008, 08:43:03 PM
CH are a species of difficult going (see p.19), so the LH will be at -2 for fighting in DGo.  They will also suffer a further -1 for "troops or terrain already in contact with its rear edge or rear corner would prevent any recoil". They will suffer combat outcomes as if in DGo too. 

Tim Child

A clear answer..finally!  ;D. This is what I had thought, but I didn't remember the -1 for troops in preventing recoil terrain  :o. Excellent!

Thank you very much.  ;)
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: Platypus on May 16, 2008, 04:14:46 AM
Yep, Guides is a clear case of caveat emptor!

Basically you do it at your own risk.......

I remember one of the first comps I ran in DBMM (SteelCon), when Tim Montromery threw a 1 half way across a largish steep hill with a column of knights.

How we laughed, and laughed....

JohnG

Title: Re: Guides
Post by: Marcel Bos on May 19, 2008, 02:46:13 PM
I would suggest that a path can't disappaer behind you.  :-\ Of course a path can halfway be unaccessible for further movement.
So I probably would allow my opponent to turn 180o, if those troops can of course, and follow the way back they came from.
Title: Re: Guides
Post by: MikeCampbell on May 19, 2008, 10:51:19 PM
I think paths actually can disappear behind you - and indeed be not visible to the front even tho you know you're on one.... paths do not always look the same from both directions - often they don't look like paths at all - they're "just" areas of less difficult going.

In addition the local may have been treacherous rather than merely incompetent- and led you deliberately to somewhere where the way out is hidden.