DBMM Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nicofig on April 01, 2007, 07:32:33 AM
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Hi,
I would know if there are some changes about basing ? Or Can I use my old DBM armies with the DBMM rules ? Must I have more figures or less than a classic dbm army ?
Thank you :-[
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If like me you had your Gallic army based as Wb(F) with Gaestati as Wb(S) you will face re-basing the bulk of foot as Wb(O) with Gaestati as Wb(F) ::).
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Yeah, that's a real *"+!
And it's not as if the base change is an increase, so giving the solution to just glue a larger base to the underneath, adding suitable extra base stuff.
Can you trim down the existing bases?
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Hi
I have most of my Gallic types double-based and trimming 10mm overall would be nigh on impossible not to mention it would most likely look like a hack job :o
Also the lack of extra figures would I know only end up annnoying me greatly ;)
So its either re-base (which would mean I could use them as Galatian as well as Gauls) or convert to using as Ancient British (bit more restrictive for historical match-ups)
Getting the wee sods off their current base-texed bases might be tad difficult.....................
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Perhaps give them a soak in a shallow tray with water just over the base stuff. Try to prise a figure off every so osten to see how soft the base stuff has got. I soaked some for 24 hrs once before they'd come off.
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Hi
Thanks for the tip
24hrs eh :o
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Looks like I've got to rebase my Hannibal's Gauls as Bd, my Companions in a wedge, and change my Indian BwX to Bd & Bw. That should be all though
Bryan
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Good question. Persians, Arabs or something Medieval I think. And you can run whatever you feel like!
Had a bit of a solo run through. It's hard having to un-learn DBM. I've established that Sp(I) vs Sp(I) is a lot quicker than before.
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Hi
Ref the Gallic change to Wb(O) I posed the following question on the Dbmm Yahoo group and was answered by PB himself. Seems there is some hope that Wb (F) may remain an option for Gauls :-)
Cheers
> Hi Phil
>
> I know you are busy with Bk3 armies but quick question ref Gallic types
>
>> > Gallic Warband are now Wb(O) instead of Wb(F).
>
> In the DBM Gallic list you (?) or RBS state "There is some controversy
> as to wether most western Gauls fought in close formation or loose.
> Since they are described as charging rapidly from difficult terrain
> and lacking staying power we favour loose (F) as more likely."
> The list therefore allowed warriors to be either all (F) or all (O)
> can I ask what has changed your thinking to making them (O) only ?
> Is the option for (F) still not plausible and thereby optional ?
> No problem with the Gaestati becoming (F) as their Alpine home more
> rugged (ie suits the looser definition)
>
> Additionally do Soldurii stay as (S) ?
>
> I ask of course as my Celtic hordes are based as (F) :-)
>
> Regards
(O) have had their DG terrain disadvantage reduced, so the (F) option is no
longer necessary.
I will probably allow both, but make (O) the preferred solution. However,
wargamers have in the past often been reconciled to rebasing by a perceived
game advantage.
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Hold on with rebasing Hannibal's Gauls until Book 2 comes out - the entry for them in the rules is pretty cryptic and Phil won't elaborate...
IIRC the last word he had on it was that it would after Cannae, which is ironic since the Bd(I) rating is supposed to reflect their behaviour at Cannae!
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Make your Gauls into Ancient Brits by buying a few chariots!! :)
Dunno what the confusion over Bd(I) gauls in Hannibal's army is - other generals might not get them, but Hannibal certainly will by Trebia.
Of course that will mean you ahve to buy him as Brilliant too, whether you like it or not.
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I've just recieved my rule book after a hiatis of almost 10 years away from the game.
two questions;
1) In which book are the Punic wars armies?
2) Has anyone seen revised army lists for the Roman and Carthaginians?
I'm starting off with matching 1/72 plastic armies to keep initial costs down before I go to 25mm lead and need troop type changes and basing info.
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All the Punic War armies are in book 2. I'm not aware of any major changes except gauls under Hannibal will be Bd(I) instead of Wb.
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What about pictish with their Ax(X) in DBM and now Pk(F) ?
Must I re-basing all my army ???
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The picts are still fine, pike fast are still 20mm deep.
cheers chris
YEEEEES !
Thanks, I'll play my picts more and more
re- YEEEEES
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where does it say that single-base wedge bases are deeper?
the text, as I read it, doesnt seem to say that at all ...
also:
where can I find the rules pertaining to wedges & their flanks ...
Some or all of the Alexandrian Kn (F) are now wedges on a deeper base.
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where does it say that single-base wedge bases are deeper? the text, as I read it, doesnt seem to say that at all ...
See Element basing on page 13: "Depth of element base if:...Elephants, Expendables, all Chariots, Knights in wedge unless double-based..."
also: where can I find the rules pertaining to wedges & their flanks ...
Overlaps on page 35: "Other than when STORMING FORTIFICATIONS...overlaps are ignored if:...The overlapped element is Knights based in a required wedge, unless (F) fighting Light Horse."
So you can't be overlapped, but you *do* take a -1 if an enemy element is in front edge contact with your flank.
Other things to note about Single Based Wedges of Knights are:
- They don't get quick kills against Cavalry, unlike other Knights (page 38); and
- They're impetuous if they're Regular Kn (F), and therefore subject to spontaneous advance unless moved or halted (page 30).
They're generally considered to still be good value.
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thanks Barritus ;)
ah for the days that TGM discovers section numbering, indexing and (heavens forfend) CROSS-REFERENCING ... but thats all a bit too cyberspacey for we old-school kriegspielers isnt it ...
what an outrageous suggestion - next we'll be wanting the pages STAPLED together, like some kind of REAL book! ... HAH! ... to hell with these new fangled notions! :P
Rules should be utterred in obscure koine hexameter and only recorded in goats blood onto the walls of remote temple-BUA's ! ::)
hmmm... so the Alexandrian Imperial (#2.15) list looks to be a real challenge to play now
its ENTIRE 'punch' factor is now (oddly) impetuous Reg Kn(F) ... and as Kn(F) they cop some serious grading disadvantages, and some of their QK's and are bizarely impetuous ...
meaning that one is almost certainly REQUIRED to keep their C-in-C with them (whilst most generals should avoid contacts), and to spend the AP's to have Alex as 'brilliant' AND to keep the wedges hidden behind that Pike Wall .... and then one must PRAY that there's an opportunity for them to make any kind of impact against the walls of Wb, Bw(S) & triple-armed Bd everyone else will be running! ... and no hope of flank marching them of course ...
list#2.15 has LOST its wonderful Bw(S) indians (downgraded to (o)) and the Greek Merc Hoplites arent worth having (Sp? hah!) ... so its a not-so-huge wall of (o) pike (with just the one 4-block of Pk(S) hypaspists) hinged with quite small numbers of rather ordinary light foot ... and a "half-a-punch" crowd of expensive & fragile Kn(F) ....
[well, there's also those scant few Macca Elephants (and maybe some indians if you run 'em), and options of a couple of Art's and a trikonter or two for the mesh-stocking brigade]
*sigh*
perhaps i should dust off my Sassanids and see what the Kn(X) can do ...
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where does it say that single-base wedge bases are deeper? the text, as I read it, doesnt seem to say that at all ...
See Element basing on page 13: "Depth of element base if:...Elephants, Expendables, all Chariots, Knights in wedge unless double-based..."
also: where can I find the rules pertaining to wedges & their flanks ...
Overlaps on page 35: "Other than when STORMING FORTIFICATIONS...overlaps are ignored if:...The overlapped element is Knights based in a required wedge, unless (F) fighting Light Horse."
So you can't be overlapped, but you *do* take a -1 if an enemy element is in front edge contact with your flank.
Other things to note about Single Based Wedges of Knights are:
- They don't get quick kills against Cavalry, unlike other Knights (page 38); and
- They're impetuous if they're Regular Kn (F), and therefore subject to spontaneous advance unless moved or halted (page 30).
They're generally considered to still be good value.
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The whole idea is that Alex will HAVE to be Brilliant, so you will have one of the most manouvreable hammers in town - if you're up to using it.
Alex did take some terrible risks, and Phil believes that most "ordinary" gamers are probably not up to the task of using him and his companions properly.
That said it certainly does look like hammers with eggshells!!
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it certainly does look like hammers with eggshells!!
indeed it does - indeed it does ... eggshell-armour, fairy-floss spears and merry-go-round horses ...
unlike the EIR's who seem to enjoying YET ANOTHER rennaissance, PB has been steadily grinding Alex.Imp into the dirt ever since their glory days under WRG.5th.Ed
so ... when do we get a HOTT version of DBMM (DBFF?) ... perhaps my Longbeard Dwarven Bd(s) (under Durin III) will last a tad longer under these "rules"
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Where have you been playing??
Macedonians have been bovine excrement forever in WRG rules - a sentimental favourite that is only any good in hte hands of the very best players. All that's happened to them now is that those very best players have been given a tool to make them even better.
EIR renaissance? when/what/where?? When was the last time EIR had a renaissance? when were they ever more than another sentimental favourite?? ??? ???
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All the Punic War armies are in book 2. I'm not aware of any major changes except gauls under Hannibal will be Bd(I) instead of Wb.
Apart from Early Carthaginian for a starter which is in book 1. There are probably some more Punic armies in book 1.
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Early Carthaginian is not a Punic War army tho - it ends at 275BC IIRC, and the 1st Punic War starts in 255 BC :)