DBMM Forum
General Category => Rules Questions => Topic started by: william on January 21, 2009, 12:22:25 AM
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;) I know I am being cheeky by starting a topic for this but it seemed to be getting mixed up with war wagons in column and entering smaller gaps etc.
Was it decided by the worthies on this forum, ( or should we run a pole ), can expendables expand from column or not ?
In my own mind they can as P 29 states that the elements move ' as if by single elements ' but over all it is still a group move.
:-[ I have been doing this for a while with Persians and Selecuids.
William
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Dunno if it was "decided by worthies" - but I have decided they can - whether I be worthy or not! :)
the limitations on single element moves are mostly irrelevant to expanding a column, as pivots and wheels are not required (eg the example of diagram 2 has all the elements simply facing forwards - none of them pivot or wheel).
there may be some cases of bent/curved/snaking columns where the elements do change direction when they expand, and this may limit where Exp's can expand to (eg they may have to pivot more than 90 deg - I'm not going to try to construct such a scenario!) - but if that was the case did then chances are they'd probably be able to do move straight from a column to line to achieve the same thing anyway.
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My take on this is that to expand from a column in general, pivots and wheels are not required, the elements slide sideways and move forward.
Exendables moving as single elements can only change direction by a pivot or wheel, (not a slide), or move forwards. (i.e. a pivot or wheel is required.)
The thing I'm not certain about is whether the restrictions on actual single element moves apply to elements expanding from a column "as if by single element moves". IMO they do apply, so expendables can't expand from a column.
On the other hand, turning 90 from column does not have to be done "as if by single element moves", so expendables can do this.
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;D
Dunno if it was "decided by worthies" - but I have decided they can - whether I be worthy or not
Of course you amoung the 'Worthies@ of this forum Mike,
and thanks to both of you for the responses, it maybe an issue for the commentary yet again.
William
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You'd better have your ruling ready for the weekend Will...... can Expendables expand from a column or not ?
Personally it would seem to make sense that Expendables deployed in line and just went forward. Can't see thunderbomb oxen or stampeding camels indulging in formation changes.... however what about those Regular scythed chariots ?
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You'd better have your ruling ready for the weekend Will...... can Expendables expand from a column or not ?
Personally it would seem to make sense that Expendables deployed in line and just went forward. Can't see thunderbomb oxen or stampeding camels indulging in formation changes.... however what about those Regular scythed chariots ?
:( Ok ok, Expendables were usually used in line in combat historically? Expendables also are now Irregular and regular! There are special rules for troops moving with expendables ( only in column ) !
If troops can only move with expendables in column does this mean the rules encourage expendables to move in columns?
All this is just thinking out loud.
Personally I feel Regular EXP(O) should be able to expand from column ( indeed be able to wheel more than 90 degrees but thats not up for discussion ), with Irr Exp(O) prohibited from doing so but there is no scope for this within the rules.
I will say for the Munster open this weekend I will be allowing expendables on tables other than my own games ( because I can also field expendables ) to deploy from column to line as a group move.
My reasoning, if the same elements can contract or turn 90 degrees into column, why can they not expand? If some other player ( Richard for example ) wants to umpire my games differently ( if I have expendables { cat out of the bag now } ) then so be it.
It does seem to be an area that needs clarification though and may I be the first to say I am extremely biased in my thinking :-[
If anyone disagrees we can have a quiet debate on the issue over a pint or two.
One other thought did occour to me if expanding from column is to be as if by single elements would that mean that one might have to pay an extra pip for each non light non or Cv(O) irregular element doing the same ? but that is a very weak arguement.
:) Of course the other option would be that any player over the weekend not to deploy expendables in columns ( avoiding the other floating zone of death routine )
William ' Ive got expendables ' Coughlan