DBMM Forum

General Category => Battle Reports => Topic started by: Geoff Pearson on November 05, 2009, 01:16:08 AM

Title: Play Test DBMM1.1 (October 28th version)Spartan vs Seleucid
Post by: Geoff Pearson on November 05, 2009, 01:16:08 AM

Last Monday John Fletcher and I play tested DBMM1.1 (October 28th version)
We I used LHG Spartan and John used Seleucid both 15mm 450pt armies.

(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-01.JPG)	Deployment the Seleucids deployed first but had to ambushes one behind       each hill. 80p gaps between commands the first 1.1 change, not sure about       this in a lot of cases this will just slow things down while PIP's       are spent to filled the gaps. Can an enemy element march though       this?
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-02.JPG)	Spartan Army       Cmd A C-in-C 1 Reg Sp(S), Reg 9 Sp(S), Reg 10 Sp(O), 4 Ps(S),       4 Ps(O), 4 Ps(I) plus 3ME from the Army camp. 43ME       Cmd B C-in-C 1 Reg Sp(S), Reg 7 Sp(S), Reg 8 Sp(O), 4 Ps(S),       4 Ps(O), 4 Ps(I) plus 3ME from the Army camp. 35 ME       Cmd B C-in-C 1 Reg Sp(S), Reg 7 Sp(S), Reg 8 Sp(O), 4 Ps(S),       4 Ps(O), 4 Ps(I) plus 3ME from the Army camp. 35 ME       total 113ME       Not knowing where the rest of the Seleucids are the Spartans deploy       wide with large number of Ps to there front to stop march move so the Sp(S)       can pick combats in they turn.
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-03.JPG)	The pike used there 1st(free) march move plus generals PIP so lapped       forward to within 80p of the Ps line in the centre. The Ps when in to       combat to see how the Ps(S) did agents a single rank of pike at 3 to 2 no       success a few draws and most repulsed.       The Ps on the right got in to trouble with Lh(F) supported by 3 Kn(X)       all had come out of ambush so the Ps could not get out of there way.       The right flank Spartan Ps(I) were face by Cv(O) up hill they survived the 1st round of combat but not the 2nd bar one you recoiled a Cv(O).
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-04.JPG)	The centre?s Ps were repulsed but gave the Sp time to wheel to face the       pike.       The left Spartans forward slowly as the Ps were now in the way.
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-05.JPG)	The pike line up with the spears and the El(S) are brought up with a 4       deep column of Wb(S)
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-07.JPG)	The Spartan left which receives the lowest PIP dice now gets a 1 the       move after also gets a 1 and after that only 2 so its advance is almost stopped       as it can't get the Ps out of the way and wheel.
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-08.JPG)	The Spartan centre attacks the Pk(O) but combat dice are poor so the       push forward in the melee's centre.
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-09.JPG)	The Spartan left which receives a few more PIPs so finally turns       to the flank
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-10.JPG)	The Spartan right flank is now attack by the El(S) and Wb(S) but recoil       one elephant and the warband but the Sub-general draws.
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-12.JPG)	The Seleucid Ax(S) attack the flank of the Spartan Ps who have been       forced to advance out of the way of the spears behind them so never had       PIPs to turn. The Ps(S) turn and recoil the Ax(S)
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-13.JPG)	The Spartan centre advance on the angled pike block which chooses to       lines up even with a double over lap the Sp(S) only recoiled them. The       Sp(S) manage to double two pike but are then recoiled the move after but       lose 2 Sp(S) one to Kn(X) and one to the pikes. 2 Ax(S) are doubled by       Sp(S) the rest give ground to the left flank spear block.
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-15.JPG)	The right flank Sp(S) sub-general is destroyed by the El(S) and the Wb(S)       take out a Sp(S) and the Kn(X) take two. With the Ps losses this brakes       the right Spartan command but the +2 dose not brake the centre.
(http://www.maws.org.uk/dbmm/11/Spartan-Selucid-16.JPG)	As it was getting late the Spartans took the last bound we started about       8.00pm and finish about 11.30pm. The Spartans did not do any extra damage,so a winning draw to the Seleucids.

1.1 effects:-
March moves dictated where the battle was fought so in most cases the player
who takes first move can dictate where they want to fight this may off site
deploying first.

In the end the Ps counter to marching in to contact added more moves to the
game slowing it down. The Ps were in the way a lot causes more PIPs to be spent
by there own side getting them out of the way so the heavy foot could fight.

What is a single element wide column and what is not could a 10 deep column
one wide for 9 ranks but two wide at its rear, is this a single wide column or
not? if its not a column can it march though the 80p deployment gap?

Combat - ranks pluses we have not had any problems with applying minus rank
factors after all it was used in DBM 3.1 for 4th rank pikes with no complaints.

John who's been playing DBM in competitions this didn't think the support factors
where any easier to use than 1.0 and liked the minus rather than the plus.

The general plus for destroying an opponent was not used, as none of the
generals destroyed anything till the last combat of the last bound.

The grading factors are far more easier to understand than 1.0 but do favour
troop type who destroy on more results especially on even results I think this
is still to much of an advantage to troop type who have already a big advantage
over the troop types they quick kill.

The foot close combat lasted longer as its harder to double with higher
factors ideally pre dice factors should end around 3 or 4 vs 3 or 4 to
double and QK troops 2 factors lower than the troops they QK.

Our impresting after our first games was we like 1.0 better as a game re combat and march moves but want the wording that have been improved clearing up other problems from 1.1.

Best Regards
Geoff

Title: Re: Play Test DBMM1.1 (October 28th version)Spartan vs Seleucid
Post by: Sgt Steiner on November 05, 2009, 09:03:17 AM

Hi Geoff

Interesting stuff.

Re the 10 deep 'column' with 2 elements width at rear rank I would say this is
not a column if it moves as its a 2 element wide group (despite strange config)
?

I too dislike the 80p gap at deployment.

Gary

Title: Re: Play Test DBMM1.1 (October 28th version)Spartan vs Seleucid
Post by: arnimlueck on November 09, 2009, 01:43:42 PM

Thank you for that report!

1) nice and beautiful report format (note to self: make more photos)
2) we also encountered several situations with Kn versus PkO and PkI. I am still not clear what behaviour I like best to simulate the Knight Charge effect (-1 to I troops on equal results, +1 to Kn (S) on equal versus foot in their bound? I even began tinkering on -1 for I troops if equal in enemy bounds). I find it hard to get the effect right for all combinations. But my personal rating is that DBMM 1.0 is already better than DBM 3.0/3.1 with the principle of killing mostly only 1 element frontally.
3) Question: how did PkO (4 deep) versus Sp(S) fare frontally in your game? Did SpS get any element killed?

Arnim