Spontaneous advance+-

[JM799]

Hi

Just started reading the rules version 2.1. There are a few bits i dont understand but the main one is the spontaneous advance which will be important in my games as i wish to play armies including warbands.

Am i right in thinking the following.

If a group of warbands is not given an movement or halt pip then it will just move ahead anyway even if no enemies/camp in sight? Does this mean if no enemies ahead they could in theory move right across the board to the enemy base edge?


If a group is given a halt after moving previously spontaneously can the then line up the front of the bases?

Sorry if the questions may seem basic but i admit to not actually playing the game yet, just reading through it.

I am thinking of starting using the DBMM100 rules first off so will not play on a full scale table.

Many thanks in advance

JM799

[Barritus]

Hi

Just started reading the rules version 2.1. There are a few bits i dont understand but the main one is the spontaneous advance which will be important in my games as i wish to play armies including warbands.

Am i right in thinking the following.

If a group of warbands is not given an movement or halt pip then it will just move ahead anyway even if no enemies/camp in sight? Does this mean if no enemies ahead they could in theory move right across the board to the enemy base edge?


If a group is given a halt after moving previously spontaneously can the then line up the front of the bases?

Sorry if the questions may seem basic but i admit to not actually playing the game yet, just reading through it.

I am thinking of starting using the DBMM100 rules first off so will not play on a full scale table.

Many thanks in advance

JM799

G'day JM799, and welcome to the forum.

I'll expand later, but the quick answers to your questions are:

Elements or columns only make a single spontaneous move each bound. So even in the absence of enemy elements they'll still only make one move (which is slightly longer than their normal move, but not enough to get across the table).

And a halt can only be used on a group. A group that has gone berko (technical term!) is no longer a single group but a series of columns which aren't in corner-to-corner contact with each other, so they're not a single group. You'd therefore need to halt or move each column separately to make the columns a single group again. The tactical lesson from this is that once a group of elements has gone impetuous it's very hard to get them back together as a group again...unless they run into a line of enemy elements!

[JM799]

Many thanks for your reply.
Sorry I worded it wrong I meant to say if nothing ahead each bound the warrant could in theory reach the other table side. But you answered my questions exactly so thank you.
I can now see that if a warband army is not kept under control it could be extremely frustrating.
Think not many groups per command.
Thnx
Jm799

[additz]

And a halt can only be used on a group.

You don't mean "only a group can be halted" , do you?
A single element can be halted as well, as far as I know.

But IF you halt a group you must halt all elements of that group.
It is not possible to halt only a part of a group and let other elements of that group run spontaneous.

[JM799]

Just another question pls.
If a group of warbands say two deep and three wide spontaneously advances....they then are not in corner to corner contact....are they still a group or now three columns two deep...would one pip or three be needed to halt them.

[additz]

You would need three pips - even if they all are heading to the same direction.

[Barritus]

And a halt can only be used on a group.

You don't mean "only a group can be halted" , do you?
A single element can be halted as well, as far as I know.

You're quite right. That was sloppy language on my part. I was trying to emphasise that once the group had gone impetuous it was no longer a single group.

But IF you halt a group you must halt all elements of that group.
It is not possible to halt only a part of a group and let other elements of that group run spontaneous.

Correct too.

[Barritus]

Many thanks for your reply.
Sorry I worded it wrong I meant to say if nothing ahead each bound the warrant could in theory reach the other table side. But you answered my questions exactly so thank you.
I can now see that if a warband army is not kept under control it could be extremely frustrating.
Think not many groups per command.
Thnx
Jm799

Yes, good insight on your part. Ideally you should have all the warband (or any impetuous troops, for that matter) in a command in a single group, unless there are very good tactical reasons for splitting them up.

Just a thought, but you might like to look at some of the battle descriptions from the www.tagmata.it website. There are lots of photos for each game so you can see how things develop. The battles include quite a few with warband.

[Barritus]

You would need three pips - even if they all are heading to the same direction.

In fact it would probably be more than that.

Look at PIP Expenditure on page 27 of the rules. 1 PIP is expended for each halt by...a group including impetuous troops.

Then, go down the page. 1 extra PIP is expended by...a halt...(e) If a...land...group includes any irregulars...and...[third dot point] halts to prevent spontaneous advance...

So to halt a group of spontaneous irregulars (with a few exceptions) costs 2 PIPs. If your group of six elements went impetuous last turn and is now three separate columns, that's going to be six PIPs to halt them in place.

Given the difficulty of getting impetuous troops back under control, you either work really hard to keep them under control as long as possible, or you build your plans around letting them go impetuous. (The second idea isn't necessarily a bad thing, as impetuous Wb (F) who don't contact enemy move as fast as LH (O), so you can cover a lot of ground without spending PIPs.)

[additz]

You would need three pips - even if they all are heading to the same direction.

In fact it would probably be more than that.
...
So to halt a group of spontaneous irregulars (with a few exceptions) costs 2 PIPs.

Oh yes - you are absolutely right. I missed that ... and I should have known it ...
I played Visigoths*  in a tournament on the last Weekend - learned that lesson
and was very pleased with the army's perfomance.

BTW:
Lorenzo's list from the Tagmate site served as a reference for my own list.
I absoletey agree with Barritus': This site is great and includes loads of interesting articles, battle reports and army lists.

Axel

[Mckenn]

Spontaneous advance-avoiding by moving

Hi - question regarding Spontaneous advance ref DBMM 2.1 -
Am I correct in assuming the following:  if I have a warband group who i dont want go off on spontaneous advance all i need to do is to spend 1 PIP to move them a little (say move them a nominal 40p forward)? I assume this is correct as it is in line with p30 of the rules which state- 'Impetuous troops must advance spontaneously... unless;
-(bullet point 1)- They have moved..

Thanks

[additz]

Hi Mckenn & welcome,

No !

See page 27:

It is a difficult evolution (d/2nd dot):
The Group does not move its full movement allowance -> +1
(mind the exceptions !)

and

the irregular clumsiness (e/2) also applies:
performing  a difficult evolution listed in (d) -> +1

Thus, it would be 3 pips !

If you'd just hold them it would be 2 (1+(e/3)) pips.


Axel

[Mckenn]

Hi Axel,
Ok cool. Sounds right. Thanks for your response.
Mckenn