Appendix IV?

[madmike1]

I believe the down grading from Ps superior to inferior is an improvement for most armies.   

I use Ps to screen my heavy troops, inferior class troop can do this just as well as a superior quality Ps and at a third of the price.   Once the main battle lines are joined Ps troops are either dead or more likely hiding somewhere at the back. 

Generally its worth paying the each cost to buy superior troops as the cost difference between inferior or ordinary and superior isn?t that great, however in this is not the case for Ps.     

However what I do have trouble understanding is that all these early armies had superior class Ps for 20 yrs under DBM, suddenly they are almost all downgraded to inferior under a new set of rules.   

[Aloysius the Gaul]

It's a new set of rules......why would you expect them to be the same?

[loki223]

three times the number if (I)...Hmmm  I might be able to sell that one. the down side is she still only has the number of figes availible. ...Thanks.

I hope the Q's aren't getting annoying but I dont have the best memory for written rules.

I like hands on to learn and remember them. this is the hard way.

[Barritus]

I hope the Q's aren't getting annoying but I dont have the best memory for written rules.

Better than not asking and getting it wrong!

Anyway, there are probably other DBMM newbies reading some of your questions, and quietly thanking you for saving them from having to ask... ;-)

[toby]

Please keep asking the questions - look at how many times your threads are being read - that gives you an idea of the number of lurkers who are wanting to ask the same questions.

DBM Ps(S) were Ps(S) just because they had javelin and shield. Ps(I) didn't have shields. Ps(O) had bows.

DBMM Ps(I) have javelins (with or without shields). Ps(O) have bows, and thus an advantage of range over them. Ps(S) are truly superior in morale or have handguns.

[loki223]

so thats the real difference in the (S) is the handguns?

 and a few exceptional without get the higher rating.

[Aloysius the Gaul]

Handguns because they were scarey things in those days, and "professional" skirmishers becaus they are better at it.

IIRC it was suggested that only the best archers and slingers should be (S), and javelinmen never better than (O) - since hte sormer outrange the later, but Phil is still fairly strongly wedded to javelinment being the proper counter to archers and slinger.

[Danzig The Doomed]

I was surprised that the Early German skirmishers that follow and give rear support to Early German cavalry are not Ps(S).  They seem to have been a chosen bunch.  In the old WRG 6th Edition these followers were upgraded to Irregular "B" for this reason.

[DaveMather]

They still may be 

If you look at the Ps in the current Book 3 draft - then there are additions to the Appendix IV (S) and (I)

At the moment with the freeze looming ever near and only looking as far as list 28 in the draft Book 3

We have the following additional Ps (S)

Basque javelinmen  - in Middle Frankish and Carolingian
Javelinmen in Hindu Indian,  Breton and Arab Conquest

Appendix IV is to some degree a guideline it will be superceded by the army list books when they appear

Book 2 is next up so get your evidence ready if you feel strongly - Note however that the classification for Ps(S) and Ps(I) has altered since DBM -

Being Ps (I) ain't that bad especially if all you are going to do is support your Cav - only 1AP rather than 3AP 

Regards


David Mather




 

[Danzig The Doomed]

OK, understood that the Appendix is an interim measure.

Also understood that Ps(I) would be more cost effective.

However, there is a strong part of me that wants to use the Army Lists as a way of understanding the ancient world, instead of just conjuring up a good competition army.  I know that I should be looking at source material and not wargames if I want to do that, but in practice 30 years on and off of war games has probably given me a much better understooding of history, and ability to understand history, than the average popular history book.

As an aside, it is a shame that the rules are probably set in stone for a while now.  If I had discovered about DBMM before it had gone to press I would have suggested introducing new categories of Ps(F) and Ax(F) specifically for infantry that run with cavalry/knights and chariots - probably "double based" in DBMM terms though I don't like physically doubling basing troops because it makes them too game specific.  You could argue for the extra speed in good going on the basis of sometimes riding double or hanging onto the backs of chariots, and just having to be extremely fit to keep up with your boss on the horse in front or get to hear about it later!  It would also put them nicely between the (S) and (I) categories.  But too late now I suppose *sniff!*

[toby]

I wouldn't worry - the chance of having got them accepted would have been pretty infinitely small.