Pike march moves, into contact and flank marching.

[william]

  This has come up before and I only wish to confirm my poor recollection on them.

Is the first move by a group ( with the front two ranks of pike ) from a flank march or delayed command free?

How much does it cost for a group with two ranks of pike for it's first march move if it includes mounted?

How many pips does it cost to march move with the first move of a group with a front of 2 ranks pike into contact? Would it also cost pips for the groups in the first question to move into contact ( from a flank march or delayed command )?

  The silly season must be upon us.

William

[landmeister]

Again, AFAIK:

1. Yes.

2. 1 PIP.

3. 1 PIP. Yes.

[andrew]

#1 - 0 PIPs if it is march move.

How much does it cost for a group with two ranks of pike for it's first march move if it includes mounted?

0 or 2 PIPs because it depends.

Page 28 : "No PIP is expended by a first march move this bound if ... a group headed by 2 or more complete ranks of Pikes that is moving straight ahead."  The PIP penalties only apply to moves requiring PIPS : "I extra PIP is expended by a move requiring PIPs...etc.".

So if the group is headed by (and only headed by) at least 2 complete ranks of Pike then the move costs 0 PIPs, even if the group includes mounted elements (say in the third rank or on the rear of the group).  But it must be a march move and it must be straight ahead.  If this is going to get debated it I suspect it will be around the meaning/interpretation of "headed".  Take for instance a group comprising a pike block with mounted trailing 'wings' aligned on the 3rd or 4th rank.  I personally don't see an issue with such a formation expending 0 PIPs for its first march move straight ahead....not that I would naturally choose such a group but it's possible.......because I view the pike elements as being the 'head' of the group given other non-Pike elements are aligned on the 3rd  or 4th rank.

If the mounted elements are in either of the front 2 ranks (of the 'head') then the move will cost 2 PIPs because the group doesn't meet the criteria for the 0 PIP move, and you have moved foot and mounted elements together.

I'm not sure what you are driving at with your third question but given the constraints of march moves, and provided you meet the criteria outlined above, the first march move in a series of march moves still costs 0 PIPs - unless I'm misunderstanding something?

Andrew

[william]

#1 - 0 PIPs if it is march move.

How much does it cost for a group with two ranks of pike for it's first march move if it includes mounted?

0 or 2 PIPs because it depends.

Page 28 : "No PIP is expended by a first march move this bound if ... a group headed by 2 or more complete ranks of Pikes that is moving straight ahead."  The PIP penalties only apply to moves requiring PIPS : "I extra PIP is expended by a move requiring PIPs...etc.".

So if the group is headed by (and only headed by) at least 2 complete ranks of Pike then the move costs 0 PIPs, even if the group includes mounted elements (say in the third rank or on the rear of the group).  But it must be a march move and it must be straight ahead.  If this is going to get debated it I suspect it will be around the meaning/interpretation of "headed".  Take for instance a group comprising a pike block with mounted trailing 'wings' aligned on the 3rd or 4th rank.  I personally don't see an issue with such a formation expending 0 PIPs for its first march move straight ahead....not that I would naturally choose such a group but it's possible.......because I view the pike elements as being the 'head' of the group given other non-Pike elements are aligned on the 3rd  or 4th rank.

If the mounted elements are in either of the front 2 ranks (of the 'head') then the move will cost 2 PIPs because the group doesn't meet the criteria for the 0 PIP move, and you have moved foot and mounted elements together.

I'm not sure what you are driving at with your third question but given the constraints of march moves, and provided you meet the criteria outlined above, the first march move in a series of march moves still costs 0 PIPs - unless I'm misunderstanding something?

Andrew

This came up a couple of weeks ago on the Yahoo list, a poster ( who I do feel has a very good grip on the rules ) stated that when a move is free it does not qualify for any 'extra' pip penalties, therefore if a group headed by ( and I would have the entire front with two ranks of pike) or any other circumstances where no pip is needed marches into contact in the first marches into contact then it will cost no pip ( instead of how I previously thought of 1 pip ).

The reason why I ask this is that I will be playing MR A. and his 'Regular' Moors with Alexandrian Imperial in our local league this summer. The Moors have quite a significant number of skirmishers and am wondering how a line of 2 deep pikes would do against them, and if a long line of combat occoured with the same line against skirmishers only ( and no enemy close order troops around ) will in cost no pips to bring micro groups ( mini columns of 2 pikes) into combat along a line of recoils etc.?

Ah, the cheese of it all.

William

[andrew]

Hi William

Agree 100% with PIP penalties only applying to moves requiring PIPs.

Ah - the penny drops regarding your last point.  What you are seeking is the ability to 'march' into skirmishers after having recoiled, provided a) you are at least 2 ranks deep and b) there are no non-skirmisher elements preventing your move from being classified as a march.  The marching into contact penalty doesn't apply because the move doesn't require PIPs.  Based on the definition of a march move, I think that is 100% fine.  Cheesy but fine.

Andrew

[toby]

I think Phil wouldn't regard it as cheesy at all - he has always said that skirmishers should slow up heavy infantry by actually attacking them. So vice versa should apply as well.