Turn 90? into column

[MikeCampbell]

Neil's extreme example is a logical extension of the original question of turning a 2x3 group of fast baggage elements into a column.  So does the original question still stand unanswered?  Surely a group more than one elements wide can turn 90 into a column - I suppose the question is how is this executed in such a way that all elements are still a contiguous group given a variety of base sizes and move distances......

Yes a group wider than 1 element can turn into a column - but go back to the procedure for doing so....

The front element moves forward or pivots to the direction faced, and then moves it's full move.

Now other elements move - the closest ones fill in "behind the column"....in this case clearly they fill into the "new" column.

Ther are 2 restrictions:

1/ elements of a group that contracts frontage must end up all facing the same way as the ORIGINAL GROUP until all of them are in the column, and
2/ elements not yet in the column CAN ONLY MOVE SIDEWAYS.

#2 seesm to be being forgotten by everyone - you cannot move forwards to get into the column - you can only move sideways.  This is a massive restriction!

This means that in the case above th eelements in the right hand side of hte new group cannot move sorwards to ente4r hte column and face the flank.\

It also means that very deep formations are limited to forming a column that goes straight ahead if they are trying to put all their elements into the 1 column - wheeling to the flank seriously limits the number of elements that can meet condition #1 (esp for slow moving troop types) - that all elements have to end up facing the same way as the original group until all the elements are in the column.

[arvnranger]

<snip>
Ther are 2 restrictions:

1/ elements of a group that contracts frontage must end up all facing the same way as the ORIGINAL GROUP until all of them are in the column, and
2/ elements not yet in the column CAN ONLY MOVE SIDEWAYS.

#2 seesm to be being forgotten by everyone - you cannot move forwards to get into the column - you can only move sideways.  This is a massive restriction!

This means that in the case above th eelements in the right hand side of hte new group cannot move sorwards to ente4r hte column and face the flank.\

[it] If this rule was applied as you have described then a group wider than 1 element would never be able to turn into column. These constraints apply, as you have reproduced above, only to elements not *in the column* (which I will further define, for the purposes of this discussion only, as directly behind and facing the same direction as the lead element of the column). Given that "rear" of the group (as in "...further to its rear") is ambiguous when turning 90-deg into column, I can't see the constraints you list being relevant because all of the moving groups elements will be *in the column* ie direcly behind and facing the same way as the lead element. I fully agree that it "looks wrong" for very deep, 2-element-wide group to turn 90deg  into column when the resulting column is much deeper (and thereby extending across a wider battlefield frontage) than the group's original frontage - I just don't see that the wording of the rules prevents it. I can't reconcile your interpretation with the other parts of the rules which say, variously,  "It [the leading element of the column] can wheel" and "... other elements move without measuring individually, the nearest elements falling in behind the column, others moving to close up any resulting gaps". No limitations on move distance or direction for following elements AFAICS *if* all the elements end in the column. The only limitations I can divine at this time are where the tail of the newly formed column would project into troop elements, enemy TZs or impassable terrain.

Cheers,
Ivan.

[MikeCampbell]

I confess to having gotten myself a little confused! :/

The restriction on moving sideways only applies to groups contracting into a column of course - as clearly stated in the rules.

I agree there seems to be no restriction on the depth of a formation that turns into a column.

[arvnranger]

[it] Darn it, Mike - I was typing a lengthy rebuttal to your post about move distances, trig (Pythagoras' Theorem perchance?  ),  the wording of the rules and 'my problem' with understanding you ... and you went and edited it into something entirely reasonable and polite! <big g>

Cheers,
Ivan.

[LawrenceG]

Hi

and then it is also possible to turn a block of warband 2 wide and 16 deep 90 degees into a column?

Have also not understood the 3 Pips. I reckon it?s only two.

See attached JPG.

neil

1 extra to wheel a group other than a column
1 extra for ineptitude.

[foxgom]

"1 extra to wheel a group other than a column"


this is not a "wheel", it?s a "turn 90 into column".

neil