Contacting fortifications

[landmeister]

Case 1.
Imagine I have a line of Cv trying to contact an enemy line of Bd defending TF hat are 2 cm deep. Moving my Cv straight ahead 240 p I can contact their TF but not the Bd. Now imagine just half of the enemy line is defending TF and the other half is not. If I move ahead, what will happen with my element overlapping its friend in contact with an enemy TF? This overlapping element will be 2 cm away from its enemy but technically overlapping.

Case 2.
Same as case 1 but now all Bd elements can be contacted when moving 240 p straight ahead. Is my group "broken" as they contact enemy at different distances?

Thank you in advance.

[foxgom]

Hi

if you can contact a defended TF, you fight the element behind it.
If some of the TF is undefended, then I would suggest fighting the undefended TF first (P42, end of third paragraph, it has a CF of 2). The chances are, your element will gain access and you then overlap the neighbouring defender.

Have not understood case 2.


neil

[Barritus]

Case 1.
Imagine I have a line of Cv trying to contact an enemy line of Bd defending TF hat are 2 cm deep. Moving my Cv straight ahead 240 p I can contact their TF but not the Bd. Now imagine just half of the enemy line is defending TF and the other half is not. If I move ahead, what will happen with my element overlapping its friend in contact with an enemy TF? This overlapping element will be 2 cm away from its enemy but technically overlapping.

Ouch, good question.

Neil, the question isn't about undefended TF, but a situation where some troops in a line are protected by TF and some aren't, and where the advancing troops have the movement to contact the TF (and thus the troops behind it) but not the unprotected troops.

So the situation looks like this (crosses fingers):

C1C1C1C1


C2C2C2C2
TFTF
BdBdBdBd

The Cv group has moved from C1 to C2, and has contacted the TF. It's therefore in contact with the two left-most Bd elements. The question is, does the 3rd Cv element (the first one not to be in contact with the TF) provide an overlap for the 2nd Cv element?

In the absence of anything clarifying this exact situation, I'd make a ruling based on its appearance - the 3rd Cv element would provide an overlap, as the situation is not one excluded by the dot points on overlaps (p 35), and is not covered by Storming Fortifications (p 42).

Case 2.
Same as case 1 but now all Bd elements can be contacted when moving 240 p straight ahead. Is my group "broken" as they contact enemy at different distances?

Double ouch. A second very good question.

And again, as the situation isn't covered by the rules, I'd make a ruling based on its appearance. In this case I'd say Yes, the group is broken. And, incidentally, I'd rule that you'd need two PIPs to make the move, as they're actually two moves.

[landmeister]

Interesting solution Barritus. But what would happen in case 2 if I just have one pip only?

Just curious. No one thought about it in the Commentary?   I find no solution there either.

[Tim Child]

The answer to both questions lies on p.35:-

"An element is overlapping an enemy element if the enemy element is in close combat and the overlapper is in:

• Both side edge and front corner-to-front corner contact with a friendly element in front edge-to-front edge combat with the enemy element ... and at least the nearest part of its own front edge is free of contact with any enemy or friendly element."

Also note (top of the same page) "Close combat occurs when an element has moved into, or remains in, front edge contact with an enemy element (or an intervening fortification or PO it is defending behind" (my emphasis).

So:

1.  The rules define an overlap by being in side edge and front corner-to-front corner contact with your fighting friend, not by being in front corner-to-front corner contact with the enemy.  The 3rd Cv element in example 1 therefore is an overlap and this is clear in the rules.

2.  The front edge of the defending Bd, for combat purposes, is effectively the front edge of the TFs.  Once this is realised, it becomes immediately apparent that the Bd's formation is as if it were two elements of Bd stepped forward, and 2 elements of Bd stepped back.  If the Bd-player had intended to have a continuous fighting front along the entire 4-wide formation, he ought to have put non-TF Bd level with the front edge of the TFs, not level with the TF-defending Bd.

     In just the same way that the Cv would not step forward to contact a second group set backward from another if there were no TFs, the Cv in example 2 will not step forward in this case.

The crucial point to remember is that the front edge of the TFs are effectively the front edge of the defending elements.  Once that is clear,  everything else follows.  It is one of those funny situations which looks odd when you deploy just the Bd, but becomes obvious once the enemy attacks!

Tim Child

[Barritus]

Interesting solution Barritus. But what would happen in case 2 if I just have one pip only?

Then you can only make the one move. Either you (a) move the entire group of Cv to contact the TF, (b) move the Cv facing the TF to contact the TF, or (c) move the Cv facing the unprotected Bd.

[landmeister]

Thanks to all responses.