Author Topic: Medieval French  (Read 1768 times)

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Barritus

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Medieval French
« on: November 09, 2019, 01:05:40 PM »
This list contains some useful heavy infantry, but I've got a question about how one type evolves through the history of the list.

In the basic list you can choose "Communal Infantry" (Reg Sp (I)) and "Brigans" (Irr Bd (I)).

After 1350 you replace the Communal Infantry with Pavisiers (Reg Sp (O)), and the Brigans are re-armed with spear and pavise as Irr Sp (O).

Then, after 1400, Pavisiers can be replaced by Voulgiers (Reg Bd (O)).

Does this term "Pavisiers" apply only to the Reg Sp (O) Pavisiers, or can it include the Brigans which are, after all, carrying pavises?

Orcoteuthis

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Re: Medieval French
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2019, 09:44:37 AM »
Only the ones explicitly called "Pavisiers" I'd assume.

ETA: In some support of this, French infantry in the Armagnac list can be either voulgiers as Reg Bd (O) or brigans as Irr Sp (O).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 09:49:15 AM by Orcoteuthis »
Andreas Johansson

LawrenceG1

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Re: Medieval French
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2019, 06:16:31 PM »
Quote
In some support of this, French infantry in the Armagnac list can be either voulgiers as Reg Bd (O) or brigans as Irr Sp (O).

If Brigans could be replaced by voulgiers, wouldn't it still say this?

However, I agree that treating "pavisiers" as referring only to the troop type called "pavisiers" would be the normal way to understand this. Brigans with a pavise and the crossbowmen who in the list notes " frequently carried their own pavises" would not be included. Also the list note "the troops listed here as pavisiers and the Brigans described by Froissart as armed with spear and pavise" implies that the term "pavisiers" refers to someone other than the Brigans.

Orcoteuthis

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Re: Medieval French
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 09:04:11 AM »
Quote
In some support of this, French infantry in the Armagnac list can be either voulgiers as Reg Bd (O) or brigans as Irr Sp (O).

If Brigans could be replaced by voulgiers, wouldn't it still say this?

Maybe; the Communals can be replaced by voulgiers in the MF list, yet don't appear here, so if brigans were treated analogously, they wouldn't appear here either.

It's certainly not a strong argument, but it seems to me it offers some support to the interpretation that only nominal Pavisiers can be replaced, not other troops with pavises.
Andreas Johansson