Strategem Clarification

[andrew]

Hi

I'm seeking clarification on a couple of the strategems.

Feigned Flight - "troops pretend to flee from the enemy".

I believe the feigned flight move is a full flee move (i.e. page 41 : recoil, turn 180 degrees, make a full tactical move).  I also presume that a group in feigned flight ends it's feigned flight as a group?  I can't see anything to the contrary.

The CNC orders the feigned flight but the feigned flight can be applied to any command.  Are there no restrictions on lines of sight / visibility between the CNC and either the other general or an element of that command?  Again I can't see anything there.  Can the CNC order a feigned flight for an Allied command?

Also, p41 states "all elements in a feigned flight not first contacted by an enemy front edge turn at the end of the 2nd bound".  I presume this mean all elements participating in the feigned flight must turn in my next bound (assuming I made the feigned flight) and this doesn't cost any pips?

I believe I read somewhere that enemy elements responding to a feigned flight cannot make a tactical move - only a spontaneous move or a halt.  So does this mean a formed body of elements cannot march straight into the rear of the troops who feigned flight?  I stands to reason but I cannot see it in the rules (maybe I'm not looking hard enough) - I say it stands to reason otherwise why feign flight to only have the enemy march straight into your rear?  Again - I'm assuming here the 400 pace march limit does not extend beyond the rear edge of elements - I think that is how the rules regarding march moves are meant to be interpreted on page 29 - again I'm happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

Flank Attack

"part of the assembled army is detached on a short hook by land......."

The rules then go on to say "it is treated like a normal flank march, except that because the distance it must travel is shorter....."

"Assembled" - when I originally read this I took this to mean "part of the deployed army" - in other words part of the deployed army was detached on a short hook.  If this is not the case, does that mean you can split the CNC command between deployed elements and leave part of the CNC command off the table for a flank attack, at the time of deployment?

Also, we have the phrase "short hook" and the word "shorter" used to describe the distance travelled.  If this is a shorter move, are there any restrictions on where you can or cannot bring the flank attack on to the table?  Given the word "short" was used twice I would expect this to be the case - otherwise having a flank attack appear on your rear edge is not a "short" hook, or is it?

I also presume that given a flank attack is treated like a normal flank march that you cannot have both a flank attack and a flank march on the same flank?

If a flank attack is treated like a normal flank march how then does the CNC get his +2 for the brilliant stroke when using this strategem?  Is that expended in the first bound when he rolls his first die?  Or do you not declare the flank attack until later in the game?  If you declare the flank attack later in the game, I presume you are then waiting for the right value on the pip die to bring on the flank attack?  And when the flank attack is declared, the CNC gets his +2 in any combat for that entire bound, or just my bound?

Apologies for the long question but I figure the best way to eliminate any confusion is to open the subject up to discussion.

Cheers
Andrew

[Aloysius the Gaul]

Hi

Feigned Flight - "troops pretend to flee from the enemy".

I'll have to get the rule book out to answer this one later....

Flank Attack

"part of the assembled army is detached on a short hook by land......."

The rules then go on to say "it is treated like a normal flank march, except that because the distance it must travel is shorter....."

"Assembled" - when I originally read this I took this to mean "part of the deployed army" - in other words part of the deployed army was detached on a short hook.  If this is not the case, does that mean you can split the CNC command between deployed elements and leave part of the CNC command off the table for a flank attack, at the time of deployment?

No.

"It is treated like a normal flank march, except..." - only complete commands can be flank marched, and the CinC's cannot be one of them.

Also, we have the phrase "short hook" and the word "shorter" used to describe the distance travelled.  If this is a shorter move, are there any restrictions on where you can or cannot bring the flank attack on to the table?  Given the word "short" was used twice I would expect this to be the case - otherwise having a flank attack appear on your rear edge is not a "short" hook, or is it?

"It is treated like a normal flank march, except..."  - it arrives in hte same place as any other flank march.  Being a shorter move distance it is more likely to arrive, hence het dice roll for arrival is 1 lower than that for an "ordinary flank march.

I also presume that given a flank attack is treated like a normal flank march that you cannot have both a flank attack and a flank march on the same flank?

You are correct - you can only have 1 flank march on a flank.

If a flank attack is treated like a normal flank march how then does the CNC get his +2 for the brilliant stroke when using this strategem?  Is that expended in the first bound when he rolls his first die?  Or do you not declare the flank attack until later in the game?  If you declare the flank attack later in the game, I presume you are then waiting for the right value on the pip die to bring on the flank attack?  And when the flank attack is declared, the CNC gets his +2 in any combat for that entire bound, or just my bound?

A brilliant stroke does not give you both the +2 and a flank attack - it takes 1 brilliant stroke to accomplish a flank attack on its own.

[Aloysius the Gaul]

Hi

I'm seeking clarification on a couple of the strategems.

Feigned Flight - "troops pretend to flee from the enemy".

I believe the feigned flight move is a full flee move (i.e. page 41 : recoil, turn 180 degrees, make a full tactical move).  I also presume that a group in feigned flight ends it's feigned flight as a group?  I can't see anything to the contrary.

yes.

The CNC orders the feigned flight but the feigned flight can be applied to any command.  Are there no restrictions on lines of sight / visibility between the CNC and either the other general or an element of that command?  Again I can't see anything there.  Can the CNC order a feigned flight for an Allied command?

There are no restrictions - any command can do it.

Also, p41 states "all elements in a feigned flight not first contacted by an enemy front edge turn at the end of the 2nd bound".  I presume this mean all elements participating in the feigned flight must turn in my next bound (assuming I made the feigned flight) and this doesn't cost any pips?

Yes - there's no option given.

I believe I read somewhere that enemy elements responding to a feigned flight cannot make a tactical move - only a spontaneous move or a halt. 

You read it in the definition of feigned flight on page 15!

"Next bound, al enemy less than 400p from elements feigning flight must make a spontaneous advance unless halted or train."

So the only options for the enemy are halt or spono.

So does this mean a formed body of elements cannot march straight into the rear of the troops who feigned flight? 

No it does not mean that.  A group or unit might be more than 400p away, hence not required to make a spontaneous advance and so able to march into the rear of your troops.

[andrew]

Thanks for your reply!  So really the flank attack is just a flank march with a lower pip die required to bring it onto the table (albeit under a brilliant CNC) - so there is nothing really mysterious about it.......

BTW, nice catch with this:

So does this mean a formed body of elements cannot march straight into the rear of the troops who feigned flight?

No it does not mean that.  A group or unit might be more than 400p away, hence not required to make a spontaneous advance and so able to march into the rear of your troops.

I hadn't considered that so it is something to either a) watch out for or b) to pull on an unsuspecting opponent (hmmmmm....very nice)

Regarding this:

A brilliant stroke does not give you both the +2 and a flank attack - it takes 1 brilliant stroke to accomplish a flank attack on its own.

Apologies for labouring the point, but under tactical factors on page 37, the rules states : "+2 : if a brilliant general who declared a brilliant stroke as he moved into close combat this bound".  So does this mean, you just call "brilliant stroke" as you push your general into combat and he gets a +2 for that bound?  And if you do this, then that is one of your 2 brilliant strokes?  Calling "brilliant stroke" is the brilliant stroke and there is nothing more to it - is that right?

Cheers
Andrew

[Aloysius the Gaul]

So really the flank attack is just a flank march with a lower pip die required to bring it onto the table (albeit under a brilliant CNC) - so there is nothing really mysterious about it.......

Yep - there's very little mysterious about the rules at all really!!

Apologies for labouring the point, but under tactical factors on page 37, the rules states : "+2 : if a brilliant general who declared a brilliant stroke as he moved into close combat this bound".  So does this mean, you just call "brilliant stroke" as you push your general into combat and he gets a +2 for that bound?  And if you do this, then that is one of your 2 brilliant strokes?  Calling "brilliant stroke" is the brilliant stroke and there is nothing more to it - is that right?

Pretty much. 

It would probably be a good idea to say "I've using my first/second (as applicable) briliant stroke to get +2 for this combat" or something like that to give it the correct gravitas and make sure your opponent notices it - you don't want to be counting up factors and have him argue that you didn't say you were using it.......

[Barritus]

Andrew asked

Apologies for labouring the point, but under tactical factors on page 37, the rules states : "+2 : if a brilliant general who declared a brilliant stroke as he moved into close combat this bound".  So does this mean, you just call "brilliant stroke" as you push your general into combat and he gets a +2 for that bound?  And if you do this, then that is one of your 2 brilliant strokes?  Calling "brilliant stroke" is the brilliant stroke and there is nothing more to it - is that right?

What Aloysius said.

Have a look at Brilliant Or Inert Generals on page 15. In the first paragraph, it says that Brilliant generals

...are allowed 2 brilliant strokes during the battle, but only 1 in a bound. A brilliant stroke can be used to specify a stratagem otherwise not available, to increase PIPs, to change orders, or to gain an advantage when moving into close combat.

If you have a look at the various relevant rules described, you'll find how you can use your Brilliant Strokes. For example, page 26 explains how a Brilliant general can use a BS to increase PIPs.

[andrew]

If you have a look at the various relevant rules described, you'll find how you can use your Brilliant Strokes. For example, page 26 explains how a Brilliant general can use a BS to increase PIPs.

I suppose the issue is that various parts of the brilliant strokes are scattered throughout the rules and unless you commit the extract phraseology to mind it can be easy to overlook a critical piece of information (but these rules are far easier to read than 3.1!)

For example, I had completely overlooked the "double pip" brilliant stroke.  Not bad - but is it worth half of 25AP?  Hard to say until you use it to either really nail your opponent or repair a really awful situation......if it is a game-breaker or a game-saver then it may be worth it.  For example, imagine doubling your PIPs on a 6 at a crucial juncture!

Cheers
Andrew

[Barritus]

I suppose the issue is that various parts of the brilliant strokes are scattered throughout the rules and unless you commit the extract phraseology to mind it can be easy to overlook a critical piece of information (but these rules are far easier to read than 3.1!)

You're quite right, and it's not helped by Phil Barker's decision to not include an index. All I can suggest is that for things like Brilliance or Inertness, look at the initial basic rule, as this will show you where else to look to find the details. Not all the details, I agree, because, for example, I think you have to read the Spontaneous rules to find out that Inert generals stop all impetuous troops from making spontaneous moves.

For example, I had completely overlooked the "double pip" brilliant stroke.  Not bad - but is it worth half of 25AP?  Hard to say until you use it to either really nail your opponent or repair a really awful situation......if it is a game-breaker or a game-saver then it may be worth it.  For example, imagine doubling your PIPs on a 6 at a crucial juncture!

I've used that ability to double PIPs on a few occasions. Once it allowed me to double 6 PIPs to 12, and meant a mixed force of Cv and Kn (F) (about 10 elements in all) was able to launch a fairly complicated series of attacks and flank attacks against an enemy group. On another occasion I used it to double 1 PIP to 2, because I *really* needed to make two moves with a command. On another occasion, I had a couple of Cv (S) in reserve which I committed to battle, when I really should have sent them to protect the baggage. Doubling PIPs would have been great as I could have moved the elements to the baggage in one turn. Oh well, Phil has said that optimal use of Brilliant Strokes is a difficult thing to achieve.

[bunwin63]

As the +2 combat factor BS is for moving into close combat, I assume that you can't use it in a bound in which you start in close combat?

Eg an overconfident Brill Gen finds himself starting his bound in contact and double overlapped. He can't pull one out and declare a BS to save his life in this situation I suppose?

[toby]

No he can't.

It makes spontaneous brilliant generals a bit of a pain because they keep pursuing into contact before you can declare a brilliant stroke and it makes it a great idea to attack brilliant generals pre-emptively.

[andrew]

Hi

I'm back again with another question or two (finally found my password!)

I played my first couple of games of DBMM over the last 2 weekends.  My first impression is you really need to unlearn DBM, but that's ok.  And secondly, given I run pike blocks I love the fact geometric ploys can no longer be used to prevent contact and / or moving.

Anyway, getting to the feigned flight strategy that I mentioned earlier in this thread : if you feign flight then, assuming we are reading the rules correctly, only those enemy elements within 400 paces at the start of their bound need to be halted (or else they become impetuous).  So lets say you started 320 paces away from a particular group and after a feigned flight end say 520 paces away (after a recoil and 160 pace move), then those afore-mentioned elements are now no longer within 400 paces and do not have to be halted.  Is that correct?

Cheers
Andrew

[Hammy]

Anyway, getting to the feigned flight strategy that I mentioned earlier in this thread : if you feign flight then, assuming we are reading the rules correctly, only those enemy elements within 400 paces at the start of their bound need to be halted (or else they become impetuous).  So lets say you started 320 paces away from a particular group and after a feigned flight end say 520 paces away (after a recoil and 160 pace move), then those afore-mentioned elements are now no longer within 400 paces and do not have to be halted.  Is that correct?

Correct. The key is that the elements feigning flight have to be within 400 paces of enemy after they have fled or nothing happens.

[andrew]

Thanks for that.  That is the way we played it so no worries there.

Cheers
Andrew