Forming a column from a rear rank

[Neil Williamson]

Can a rear rank pivot 90 and move off to form a column?
I think it can but some of my opponents question the move and think it should be a front rank only.
Page 32 at the top states a single element can interpenetrate friends by exit from or forming a column.
Page 29 just states that the future front element moves first and the others move individually to fall in behind the column.

To put in context a play primarily light horse so often I want to err... advance in a different direction, and get as far away as possible.

It would be good to have some clarification

[Fon Tok Nak]

No.

P32 para 1 is about moving in gaps. It allows an element to slide sideways out of a column. P32 para 3 is about interpenetration. Pivoting 90 would mean passing through three corners of the element in front so is not allowed.

However, see p29 for a 180 turn. After such a turn, there is nothing to stop a group moving away in column. In other words, a column of LH can turn 180 so that the former rear is now the front and the new front element can lead the column away. Costs 2 PIPs as the 180 is a difficult evolution.

Anthony

[Neil Williamson]

Thanks Anthony.  Yes I had misread paragraphs 1 and 3 on pg 32 as both interpenetration, so that answers the bit about forming a column from a rear rank.

I did try to do the 180 suggestion in a tournament game once mistakenly thinking I could march move, then retracted it.

I think that move is two moves (but would love it to be just one!)
At the top of page 29 it states that the change of formation is an entire move. So if you are doing a 180 first I think you are doing something other than just going into column and therefore making an extra move.

Neil 

[Fon Tok Nak]

180 is a change of direction (p29, para 2), not a change of formation (p29, para 1).

As such, it is only ever part of a move that adds a PIP to the move. It can be done at the start or end of a move (but not in the middle). Thus, move + 180 = 2 PIPs; 180 + move = 2 PIPs; just doing 180 = 2 PIPs.

Note, a line can do a 180 and wheel or move off in column as one move, but a column cannot do a 180 and expand into line as one move. Also note, when doing a 180, it is also possible to move short for no extra PIP cost (see p27 part (d)).

Although aimed at complete beginners, this video may also be helpful:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btNAocG_TbI

Anthony

[Neil Williamson]

Oh gosh - you can keep re-reading these rules sometimes and still not be sure.

I agree, the 180 is a change of direction not formation. As part of a move therefore it can be used as  part of a change of formation. The wording "Unless expanding from a column" in the second paragraph, IMO, reinforces this.
As you say you cannot turn 180 and expand from a column because of the exclusion stated at the beginning of the 2nd para and under the Expanding from a column bullet it states "The front element remains stationary."

Now here is where I'm firmly on the fence.
In the 2nd bullet Contracting or turning 90 into a single column, it states that "the future front element of the column either moves forward or pivots 90 ..."
So turning 180 and  and then moving off to form a column is not part of those two situations. On the other hand it also does not specifically exclude other manoeuvres first either.
So is the 2nd bullet exclusive, is that the only manoeuvre that can be made before forming a column or can other manoeuvres be made prior to it?

I think it is open to interpretation.

EDIT
Since posting the above I also posed the question on our New Zealand facebook forum. 3 experienced players have responded so far all agreeing that you can do a 180 and then move off in column. The reasoning being that the 2nd para states "... a group move can include only these changes in direction" with the emphasis on the word INCLUDE. So the change in formation can include a change in direction first.

[LawrenceG1]

It's not 100% clear from the rules whether you can turn 180 and form a column.  Most people adopt the convention that you can. This has the virtue of making it easier for players to do what they want.

Where interpenetration is permitted, you could use a rear rank element as the front element of a column. It would have to move straight forward while interpenetrating, though.