Psiloi Impetuous? This Means Charge?

[Blathergut]

Psiloi in the TZ of enemy become impetuous.  Does this mean they must charge enemy? 

Any ideas why they would become impetuous?  I'd think they'd be more likely to want to run when that close than charge in.

Ideas?

Dan T.

[Hammy]

Yup, you got it.

The theory is that by making Ps impetuous when too close to the enemy they are forced to engage (remember that Ps don't actually charge in with daggers, the shoot and lob javelins in general). By forcing the Ps to engage it makes it harder to delay enemy troops with Ps something that was considered a big problem in DBM prior to the latest version.

Impetuous Ps is part of Phil's way of solving the Ps delay problem.

[toby]

It also means that if you end up with a Ps-Ps combat on the edge of your main block, it pretty much drives itself and lets you spend your PIPs on the real battle in the centre.

[Hammy]

It also means that if you end up with a Ps-Ps combat on the edge of your main block, it pretty much drives itself and lets you spend your PIPs on the real battle in the centre.

Why would you want to do that when it's far more fun to put Ax infront of enemy Ps. Even more so if you have the odd base of shooters to mess his formation up 

[toby]

I guess it depends on the types of battles that you fight...

I am disappointed at the number of Psiloi that are creeping into army lists. I feel that Bw(I) and Ax(I) should be the default troop type for poorly armed and unenthusiatic skirmishers and Psiloi should be reserved to troops that demonstrably specialized in skirmishing, rather than being a default.

[Hammy]

I guess it depends on the types of battles that you fight...

I am disappointed at the number of Psiloi that are creeping into army lists. I feel that Bw(I) and Ax(I) should be the default troop type for poorly armed and unenthusiatic skirmishers and Psiloi should be reserved to troops that demonstrably specialized in skirmishing, rather than being a default.

The fix to that would have been to be far more strict in allowing Ps in the army lists in the first place.

I tend to agree that a lot of rules allow excessive numbers of foot skirmishers, often as a flexible choice between poor archers and bow armed skirmishers.

[MikeCampbell]

a lot more Ps in the lsits are (I), so they won't last long - and even 1 AP wasted on a Ps(I) road kil is 1 AP that cant' be spent on trooops that can actually win teh battle.

There may be more Ps in the lists (I haven't really checked)....but Ps are completely relegated to secondary roles in DBMM, compared to DBM, by a combination of changes to terrain, combat and movement, so I predict many fewer of them will be bought.

[Hammy]

a lot more Ps in the lsits are (I), so they won't last long - and even 1 AP wasted on a Ps(I) road kil is 1 AP that cant' be spent on trooops that can actually win teh battle.

There may be more Ps in the lists (I haven't really checked)....but Ps are completely relegated to secondary roles in DBMM, compared to DBM, by a combination of changes to terrain, combat and movement, so I predict many fewer of them will be bought.

I can't comment on the lists for reason of not owning them and not intending owning them (I have abet to win) but to be honest you are right, Ps are not that special in DBMM. You might as well just use an army made up entirely of Irr Bd(O) IMO.

[MikeCampbell]

Yes they have roles - I said as much - but they are secondary compared to the effect they could achieve in DBM.

things I use Ps for in DBMM: 

• holding difficult terrain
• shielding heavy troops from shooting and enemy ps
• opposing enemy Lh if I have nothing better to do it with
• flanking/lapping
• providing rear support where allowed

Not so different from DBM really - but there are things that were "important" in DBM that are no longer there

Things I might be tempted to use Ps for in DBMM:

• disrupting heavy infantry - especially pike (since pike don't count rear ranks against them - but I suspect this will be like Lh vs Kn in DBM - superficially tempting, and occasionally it works, but most often you jsut lose all your troops to no effect)

Essentially completely new - Ps vs heavy infantry was pretty useless inDBM - even with 2 overlaps the heavies could get 2 or more ranks so was normally at factor 3 or more.  The Ps wouldn't get killed, but they wouldn't actually achieve anything either - there was no realistic possiblity of actually disrupting the other guy's heavy infantry.

Things I can no longer use Ps for in DBMM (compared to DBM), or no longer want to use them for (ie they can be used...but it's a waste of resources now)

• holding a flank on their own without terrain cover or heavier troops in support
  
• preventing enemy movement
• hang around in the open as general purpose reserves, easy-to-manouvre irregulars, or something I bought just to use up the points

IMO the removal of these 2 3 roles is the big change that puts Ps into its proper place

[andrew]

IMO the removal of these 2 roles is the big change that puts Ps into its proper place

Agreed - into the difficult terrain where they belong.

[toby]

Useful for taking on warband in front of your Polybian legions.

[Platypus]

Indeed.

And a friend just did that today with Nan Chou vs Malay and some of the warband were killed by Ps before they got to the Pk(X) in higgledy-piggledy bits.

Nan-chou won, but also by mugging the elephants with Ax. Ax(I) at that....

G^is,
John

[Doug M.]

Who is running Nan Chou John?

I can see at some stage I am going to have to get some sort of Asian army...   just to keep up with all the freaks ;-)

D.

[Barritus]

If you read the account of my victory with Alexandrian Macedonians against Tamils, you'll find that Ps are quite useful against elephants, especially if the Ps are (S). Ps always quick kill elephants, but the elephants always need to double the Ps. The only advantage the elephants have is that they don't count overlaps from Ps against them unless the Ps are in contact with the elephants' flanks. On both flanks I had screens of Ps (S), with Ax (S) behind, and I think only two elephants out of six on the Tamil flanks broke through their Ps opponents to get into the good stuff behind.