Some problems while lining up

[Marcel Bos]

I'm glad you drew it - it makes it a lot easier to see!!

I like such examples, there are easy and fast to make, and it gives sometimes more information than only words.

i'm going to raise this on the yahoo list & see what reaction it gets......

Please keep us informed. I am curious.

[landmeister]

Yes, please. Tell us what is the consensus (if any) in the list.

[MikeCampbell]

no replies yet....must be too hard for people although I referenced the diagrams in this thread......

[MikeCampbell]

Well one guy thought it was fine since a deep formation si a column....so there were some posts pointing out that a column is defined in DBMM as a 1-element wide formation and no further discussion of the actual question.....par for the course I'm afraid!! 

[MikeCampbell]

Here's the first substantive reply as such...IMO it's still short of the mark tho - why can't the 1-element whide columns in the larger group wheel?

A column is a one-element wide group, not wider.  A group cannot be
treated as a series of columns unless it actually moves as separate
columns (PIPping for each columns' move - or impetuous columns, of
course), in which case it's not a single group, of course!

P.28 Group Moves "A group is defined as a number of contiguous
elements of the same command which, **except as made necessary by
wheeling or turning a column or passing through a gateway**, are
facing in the same direction with each in both edge and
corner-to-corner contact with another of the group's elements.  **A
group only 1 element wide is a column.**...

"**Unless moving laterally to form or expand from a column or
turning**, its elements must each move parallel to, or follow, the
first of them to move, or wheel through the same angles."

P.29 "Each element **of a column** wheels in succession on arrival at
the place where the first wheeled."

Tim Child

[landmeister]

Thank you for your efforts Mike. I think the situation is complex enough to be considered a "hole" in the rules  . I hope it will be solved in future versions. 

[Marcel Bos]

wheel through the same angles

I think that Tim Child is right, and it is the intention of the rules that it can't be done.
But a very nice thought.

[MikeCampbell]

This from Phil pretty much closes teh discussion:

A column is one element wide. A group more than one element wide is not a
column. A single file of elements can leave the group and will then be a
column. If the file next to it then moved forward to join it, the resulting
group would be two wide and not a column. If it starts as a group more than
one element wide and ends as a group more than one element wide it has not
been a column.

The idea of treating a single group as a lot of columns side by side is an
attempt to evede the rules and the author will not be and umpires should not
be sympathetic.

I think that covers all points?

Phil

[Tim Child]

This from Phil pretty much closes teh discussion:

[quoet]A column is one element wide. A group more than one element wide is not a
column. A single file of elements can leave the group and will then be a
column. If the file next to it then moved forward to join it, the resulting
group would be two wide and not a column. If it starts as a group more than
one element wide and ends as a group more than one element wide it has not
been a column.

The idea of treating a single group as a lot of columns side by side is an
attempt to evede the rules and the author will not be and umpires should not
be sympathetic.

I think that covers all points?

Phil

[/quote]

Phil's intention as regards the original question is pretty clear.  Not sure I follow his reasoning about moving in a series of columns, however. 

In some cases (e.g. crossing DGo) you have to move as individual columns and naturally end up side-by-side back in your original group. 

Tim Child

[MikeCampbell]

I think sometimes we read to much exactness into Phil's post - the case in point was one where the wider group could move, and that was what he was addressing.

He often doesn't "bother" to consider other situations with his answers as "we" often do - so IMO if you're in DGO and have to move as 1-element-wide-columns then you do so and they can all wheel per Fig 16 if and when required.