Ally Generals

[foxgom]

Hi

I want to use an ally from book 3 list 54 Bedouin....

Question 1:
the ally general can be equipped as the CinC or as a Sub General. [Lists, Page 1 , Allies, first paragraph].
The CinC must be Cv(O), the Subs can be Cv(O) or LH(O)
But...
the ally can only contain compulsory troop types and the Bedu Subs are not compulsory.
Can I use a LH(O) general?

Question 2:
The ally is a Hamdanid of Mosul.
The CinC or Subs could be upgraded to Cv(S) but again, this is not compulsory.
Can I upgrade the Ally Hamdanid to Cv(S)?

Question 3:
Turkish Ghulams are marked as **3-7, where ** means "if any are used".
Can I use Turkish Ghulams in the allies list?

neil fox

[LawrenceG]

Reread the section on allies in the front of book 3.

You will see that the general can be... ...the allied contingent can  otherwise include only compulsory troop types.

So the general does not have to be a compulsory troop type.

That answers questions 1 and 2.

Question 3 would be a unanswerable because if you can opt not to take them, they are not compulsory, but if you use them then they are compulsory . However, In book 2 lists, published after book 3, the formula has been changed from **x-y, where ** means "if any are used"
to "0 or x-y" and the ally rules in the front changed to explicitly allow this in an ally contingent. So I would say the intent is that they should be permitted.

[Barritus]

Hi

I want to use an ally from book 3 list 54 Bedouin....

Question 1:
the ally general can be equipped as the CinC or as a Sub General. [Lists, Page 1 , Allies, first paragraph].
The CinC must be Cv(O), the Subs can be Cv(O) or LH(O)
But...
the ally can only contain compulsory troop types and the Bedu Subs are not compulsory.
Can I use a LH(O) general?

Yes.

The compulsory troops that ally commands are restricted to including do not include generals. If generals were included in the compulsory troops which were covered by that rule, every allied command would have to include a C-in-C, and many would have to have a Sub as well!

Question 2:
The ally is a Hamdanid of Mosul.
The CinC or Subs could be upgraded to Cv(S) but again, this is not compulsory.
Can I upgrade the Ally Hamdanid to Cv(S)?

I don't have my list book with me at the moment, but I think the answer is Yes. Troops in an allied command can be upgraded on the basis of the list they come from. If an ally command comes from a time and place permitting an upgrade to the army the ally comes from, then the ally can get the upgrade.

To give another example: the Bagratid Armenian list allows Nikephorian Byzantine allies. If you take the Armenian army between 963 and 976, you could legally upgrade the Byzantine ally general to Brilliant, because that's an option available in the original list.

Question 3:
Turkish Ghulams are marked as **3-7, where ** means "if any are used".
Can I use Turkish Ghulams in the allies list?

Yes. In fact, if you use the 3-7 ghulams in the main list, you must use 1-2 ghulams in the ally command.

[Barritus]

Hi

I want to use an ally from book 3 list 54 Bedouin....

Okay, I have the list book with me now...

Question 1:
the ally general can be equipped as the CinC or as a Sub General. [Lists, Page 1 , Allies, first paragraph].
The CinC must be Cv(O), the Subs can be Cv(O) or LH(O)
But...
the ally can only contain compulsory troop types and the Bedu Subs are not compulsory.
Can I use a LH(O) general?

Yes. My previous answer still stands.

Question 2:
The ally is a Hamdanid of Mosul.
The CinC or Subs could be upgraded to Cv(S) but again, this is not compulsory.
Can I upgrade the Ally Hamdanid to Cv(S)?

I think so. The list notes say allies represent leaders of temporarily allied tribes, but that doesn't specifically prevent the upgrade.

Question 3:
Turkish Ghulams are marked as **3-7, where ** means "if any are used".
Can I use Turkish Ghulams in the allies list?

No. Continuing that sentence in the notes (top of page 50), you'll see it says: "...and can only command Bedouin troops." That would suggest the only troops the allies could command would be the Irr LH (O), the Bedouin foot and baggage - even the Ahdath foot seem unavailable, as they're not Bedouin.

If that sentence ("...only command Bedouin...") wasn't present, and you took the ghulams, the ally would have to have at least a quarter of the minimum of the ghulams, which is 1. But there wouldn't be a maximum; he could take all 7 if you wanted. This is because he's an internal ally, not an allied command drawn from a separate list.

[LawrenceG]

Barritus is mainy taking about using a Bedouin (same nation) ally general in a Hamdanid army.

I think the original question was about using a Hamdanid of Mosul ally as a foreign ally contingent in another amy.

Different rules apply to these two cases.

[Barritus]

Barritus is mainy taking about using a Bedouin (same nation) ally general in a Hamdanid army.

I think the original question was about using a Hamdanid of Mosul ally as a foreign ally contingent in another amy.

Different rules apply to these two cases.

Ah, I'd completely missed that. Sorry.

In which case, my answers to the questions would be:

1. Yes. The statement about the permitted troop type of an ally general in the first paragraph of "Allies" ("Their type can be that of the allied contingent's list's specified C-in-C or sub-general...") is about as definitive as you're going to get. It makes no requirement that the general be of a compulsory type.

2. Yes. In the second paragraph of "Allies" it says: "Allied troops...can use only those options specified in their own list for the assisted army's date..." So as long as the year of the main list is in the range 890 to 991, yes, it's permitted.

3. Yes. As Lawrence has pointed out, the language is ambiguous. But given the options provided in Book 2, I'd have no problem approving it if the list was given to me to check. Of course, you'll only get 1-2 of the Reg Cv (S), but that's still useful.