Recoiling through Pk

[Barritus]

I have a column of five elements - Ps in front followed by four Pk elements. Enemy Bw fire causes the Ps to recoil. Where does he end up?

On reading the rules I can't find a definite answer, but I understand Phil Barker's interpretation of Swiss stone chuckers Ps (I) recoiling into the middle of a Swiss pike block means they end up behind the second rank of Pk. Is that correct?

Cheers

[landmeister]

IMHO, yes. You're right.

[LawrenceG]

I have a column of five elements - Ps in front followed by four Pk elements. Enemy Bw fire causes the Ps to recoil. Where does he end up?

On reading the rules I can't find a definite answer, but I understand Phil Barker's interpretation of Swiss stone chuckers Ps (I) recoiling into the middle of a Swiss pike block means they end up behind the second rank of Pk. Is that correct?

Cheers

P32 para 5. It ends up behind the first element whose base the Ps failed to clear, which is the first rank of pike.

This is a change from DBM, in which it was the second rank.

[Valentinian Victor]

This is one of the daftess rules in the game!

Due to one isolated incident we have a situation where Ps end up embedded in a formation.

This does not reflect the ancient military manuals and the ancient authors accounts of both Greek and Roman warfare where the Ps moved through the formations behind them to then act as a reserve to pursue routers. Even barbarians such as the Allemanni performed this without getting in a tangle!!!

[LawrenceG]

This is one of the daftess rules in the game!

Due to one isolated incident we have a situation where Ps end up embedded in a formation.

This does not reflect the ancient military manuals and the ancient authors accounts of both Greek and Roman warfare where the Ps moved through the formations behind them to then act as a reserve to pursue routers. Even barbarians such as the Allemanni performed this without getting in a tangle!!!

The idea is that you use PIPs to withdraw them all the way through before they get into a serious fight, rather than relying on recoils.

NB ususally Ps will repulse from foot, which may enable them to get through all the ranks of the pikemen, depending where they start, of course. 

Personally I think they should go all the way through, but then you need extra rules to deal with what happens with very long columns allowing you to teleport interpenetrating troops vast distances.

[Barritus]

I have a column of five elements - Ps in front followed by four Pk elements. Enemy Bw fire causes the Ps to recoil. Where does he end up?

On reading the rules I can't find a definite answer, but I understand Phil Barker's interpretation of Swiss stone chuckers Ps (I) recoiling into the middle of a Swiss pike block means they end up behind the second rank of Pk. Is that correct?

Cheers

P32 para 5. It ends up behind the first element whose base the Ps failed to clear, which is the first rank of pike.

This is a change from DBM, in which it was the second rank.

Thanks for the pointer - I was looking in the recoiling rules on page 40...*sigh*

[Valentinian Victor]

This is one of the daftess rules in the game!

Due to one isolated incident we have a situation where Ps end up embedded in a formation.

This does not reflect the ancient military manuals and the ancient authors accounts of both Greek and Roman warfare where the Ps moved through the formations behind them to then act as a reserve to pursue routers. Even barbarians such as the Allemanni performed this without getting in a tangle!!!

The idea is that you use PIPs to withdraw them all the way through before they get into a serious fight, rather than relying on recoils.

NB ususally Ps will repulse from foot, which may enable them to get through all the ranks of the pikemen, depending where they start, of course. 

Personally I think they should go all the way through, but then you need extra rules to deal with what happens with very long columns allowing you to teleport interpenetrating troops vast distances.

I think the easiest solution would have been that Ps can recoil through friends whose depth is no more than the Ps normal tactical move, if friends are deeper than this the Ps dont recoil/repulse but dont take the -1 for being unable to recoil.