Author Topic: Early Imperial Romans - Syrian Options?  (Read 1788 times)

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kilroy44

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Early Imperial Romans - Syrian Options?
« on: November 06, 2013, 08:09:44 AM »
Hello,

For DBMM army list Book 2 List 56 Early Imperial Roman:  are the list options and exceptions listed as applying to armies "based in Syria" assumed/considered to apply to/include EIR armies based only in the actual Roman province of Syria, or also assumed/considered to apply equally to/include EIR armies based in the Roman provinces of Iudaea/Palestina, Arabia and Mesopotamia as well? 

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Brian

Orcoteuthis

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Re: Early Imperial Romans - Syrian Options?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 11:19:53 AM »
Were there any army-sized units based in any of the smaller provinces?

Either way, I've always assumed that "Syria" here refers to the entire Roman Levant.

toby

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Re: Early Imperial Romans - Syrian Options?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 02:11:20 PM »
I think Syria and Egypt were the only two eastern provinces to have legionary garrisons.  The others just had auxiliaries, who were there to stop raiding and maintain the peace.  Any major uprising or invasion would be dealt with by the Egyptian garrison (2 legions IIRC) or the Syrian garrison (3 legions IIRC). 

I was reading something somewhere about Pontius Pilate that he was Equestrian rather than a Senator, so couldn't command a big province like Syria, because only a Senator could command legions.  Don't know how accurate that is.  Egypt of course was a special case - the two legions there were the only legions that couldn't be commanded by senators, because of how important Egyptian grain was for Rome, and the risk that any Senator that commanded there would be tempted to rebel.  So they were commanded by long-service veterans - command of an Egyptian legion was the highest rank that a plebean could reach in the Roman army.

Anyway, since EIR armies must have legionaries, they must be from either Syria or Egypt in the east.  Unless you are doing a border skirmish in DBMM100 or something like that I guess, in which case you wouldn't have the legionaries, and you could be in Judea or Cappadocia or somewhere like that.

kilroy44

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Re: Early Imperial Romans - Syrian Options?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 01:36:01 AM »
As an owner of an EIR army (which is also my favorite ancient army), I'm in the process of developing two DBMM "play aids" for EIR's.  The first is an Excel spread sheet which shows at a glance  in which province each legion was based in any given year between 25 BC and 197 AD.  The second is a list of every significant Roman military campaign and each participating legion or legionary vexillation between 25 BC and 197 AD.  My intent is to enable a DBMM EIR player to quickly determine which historically appropriate troop options he may or may not choose from the army list, depending on the location and year in which he has chosen to base his army.   These documents might also aid in confirming the historical accuracy of a player's EIR troop choices in a tournament setting.  When complete I'd like to post them on the Internet for interested DBMM players to access (esoteric though it might be).

One of my dilemmas as I work on these documents has been how Phil Barker intends to define the region of "Syria" in the EIR list.  I have found that there were a number of legions stationed/based in the Roman East outside of the province of Syria proper for significant periods, so I want to clarify their most likely status as concerns troop choice unde the DBMM EIR list.  A full legion was stationed in the province of Judaea from 67 to beyond 197 (two legions between 117-125), another legion was based in the province of Arabia 106-119  and 125 to beyond 197, and yet another legion was based in the (short-lived) province of Mesopotamia 115-117 AD.  These were all in addition to the 3-6 legions based in the actual province of Syria during the army list's time span.  In DBMM any one of these Eastern legions not actually based in the named province of Syria could conceivably contribute enough legionary Bd elements to form the core of a decent-size DBMM army (keeping in mind that a single legion could be represented on the war game table by up to 20-22 elements of Bd if complete and at/near full strength).

As an example:  in 6 AD one legion (XVI Gallica) was based in the province of (Upper) Germany and another legion (XXI Rapax) was based in the adjacent province of Raetia.  Per the army list, a DBMM army of 6 AD formed around the legion based in Germany MAY NOT use Spanish slingers or symmachiarii, but an army formed around the legion based right next door in Raetia MAY use Spanish slingers and symmachiarii, because an army in Raetia is evidently "based other than in Germany, Britain, Syria, Asia Minor or Egypt."  I just want to find out whether or not the same rationale applies to a province containing a legion which is adjacent to or near, but not in, the named province of Syria.

So based on your replies, the intent of the DBMM EIR list is as follows:

If army based in:      Region includes named Roman province(s) of:

Britain:                     Britannia.

Gaul:                        Gallia Lugdunensis, Aquitania, Belgica (no legions based in other Gallic provinces during this period).

Germany:                 Upper Germany, Lower Germany.

Italy:                        Italy.

Syria:                       Syria, Judaea/Palestine, Arabia, Mesopotamia

Asia Minor:               Galatia, Cappodocia (no legions based in other Asian provinces during this period).

Egypt:                      Egypt.

Other than above:   Spain, Illyricum, Dalmatia, Upper Pannonia, Lower Pannonia, Africa outside of Egypt, Macedonia, Upper Moesia, Lower Moesia, Raetia, Noricum, Dacia.

(Note:  in 10 AD the province of Illyricum was re-organized and re-named, becoming the provinces of Dalmatia and Pannonia).

Does this sound like the convention to adopt for EIR armies in DBMM?  Thank you for your input.

Brian

Orcoteuthis

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Re: Early Imperial Romans - Syrian Options?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 10:09:20 AM »
Sounds reasonable to me, tho I hasten to add I have no special insight in Phil's intentions here.