Author Topic: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier  (Read 2844 times)

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Barritus

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Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« on: September 25, 2013, 07:36:55 PM »
If your deployed troops consist only of mounted, Ps and Bge (F), you get the option to modify your deployment dice.

However there's no mention of fortifications in the statement (and fortifications don't seem to be elements as defined in the rules).

By my reading, this means you can deploy TF or PF with your mounted and Ps army and still claim the deployment dice modifier.

(I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it at least seems possible.)

Is this how others read this rules interaction?

Orcoteuthis

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2013, 06:09:44 AM »
I read it like you. Fortifications are explicitly not elements, and the "all mounted" modifier explicitly restricts your elements.

landmeister

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 12:58:04 PM »
I also agree.

Doug M.

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 06:25:18 AM »
why..  ?  or are we now reduced to the angels on a head of a pin style arguments much favoured by one list member? Of course if the mounted could dismount, they might be of use... 

toby

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 10:09:36 AM »
Lets keep the ad hominem attacks out of here....

Barritus

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 01:03:42 PM »
why..  ?  or are we now reduced to the angels on a head of a pin style arguments much favoured by one list member? Of course if the mounted could dismount, they might be of use...
??

Two possibilities come to mind. One is to defend the TF with Ps (S). The other is to have the TF's intended defenders as part of a delayed command.

I accept that both situations are far from ideal. But rather than angels on heads of pins, I'm looking at ways that players can use rules in ways their opponents are unlikely to expect: if you claim the deployment modifier opponents are going to expect a nearly entirely mounted army running all over the place, not one that plonks down a length of TF.

The Ps will defend at factor 5, and get a +1 if they lose against foot, but repulse if they lose; but they're cheap troops to hold a piece of otherwise open terrain with while you go and Do Stuff elsewhere. As for the delayed command, you might be able to use a road to help the delayed troops move up to the fortifications. Or your opponent might be tempted to race to the fortifications in the hope of getting their before your delayed troops, and not pay enough attention to what the rest of your army is doing...

For what it's worth, the army I was thinking of applying this to is the Late Achaemenid Persian, which has the distinction (with NKE, Early Byzantine and Aztec) of being an army which can field an inert regular C-in-C with three regular sub-generals. Having an inert C-in-C means you have to move second, and that in turn means it would be good to maximise your chance of deploying second. But with an Aggression of 1, you're more likely to be defender, which means you're more likely to deploy first. But if you take an army which qualifies for the deployment modifier, what can you do to stop heavy infantry armies from grinding forwards and driving you off the table? Put down some TF and force your opponent to fight his way over them.

Orcoteuthis

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 06:04:40 PM »
The Ps will defend at factor 5, and get a +1 if they lose against foot, but repulse if they lose
Infantry fighting across fortifications always recoil if beaten but not doubled; type-specific exceptions like Ps repulsing from foot do not apply.

Doug M.

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2013, 02:36:43 AM »
Very cunning Peter. Bit of a one trick pony though, and could come gloriously unstuck, as with any mounted, my first thought would be flank march.


Valentinian Victor

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2013, 01:52:40 PM »
Book 2, List 67 Greuthingi allows you to field up to 24 TF in 376AD, which you could practically cover the entire centre if you so wished and you could just put the Ps(O) behind it if so wished. A nasty trick would be to put the Kn(F) behind it so that anyone attacking them would count as crossing difficult terrain, and the Kn(F) dont pursue if they win as they would 'reach difficult going'.

However, I'm going to spoil that one in that I am going to suggest to Phil when he reprints Book 2 that the TF belong to List 65, Tervingi, as it was Athanaricus, who was then leader of the Tervingi Goths, who attempted to repair and use the old Roman field wall defences in Dacia against the Huns and not the Grethingi Goths.

mickhession

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Re: Fortifications and the deployment dice modifier
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2013, 02:39:32 PM »
But wouldn't repaired frontier defences be FW, not TF?

Cheers
Mick