marching

[madmike1]

Thanks for the explanation.  I think my problem with initially understanding this rule is that I found it illogic.  I kept reading it and coming to the same explanation as that provided here but thought my interpretation must be wrong.  Here are a couple of scenarios that come to mind:

Scenario 1: The enemy line is all within range, facing the other way BUT at a slight angle to the marchers.  In this case ?a  hypothetical group move 400p straight ahead? wouldn?t contact all enemy elements and consequently wouldn?t be allowed. 

Scenario 2: Enemy line is facing directly away and consists of 3 elements, the marcher has only 2 elements, accordingly as not all enemy elements are contacted the march isn?t allowed. 

My point is what is this march rule trying to simulate?   

[toby]

Scenario 1 - I think its still OK as they would be hit by the hypothetical move - but I'm on shaky ground here.

Scenario 2 - I think is not OK as there are elements that aren't being contacted.

I think the intention is to allow you to march up to insignificant bodies of troops that aren't a risk to you i.e. bodies that aren't facing you and have a smaller frontage than you (which might have been a better way to say it).

[Aloysius the Gaul]

1 is certainly OK IMO - contact can include teh optional extra movement to allow lining up, so the enemy being at an angle makes no difference.

2 is a new one to me in this thread.  IMO you might get around it by moving a hypothetical group - ie imagine your group is large enough to contact all such elements.....

I disagree that teh idea is to only allow contact with small groups - IMO it is a device to stop people trying to run away while still preventing enemy from doing multiple march moves.

[AB]

Thanks to all for answering my original question. Hopefully it will settle a difference of opinion.

As regards point C. I really don't understand why the need to be able to contact with a hypothetical straight ahead move was even included. It's too complicated and doesn't seem make any sense that marching is only allowed if facing directly towards the enemy flank/rear. Anybody know the rational behind it?
  Just a thought: what if point C was replaced with a simpler exception of being entirely behind the front edge of all other known enemy within 400p? Presumably there's a very good reason why this wouldn't work but maybe somebody could explain it.

[madmike1]

A march move must start further than 400p from all known enemy not (a) Light Horse or Psiloi, or (b) beyond a friendly PF or TF, or (c) that would be contacted on a flank or rear edge or rear corner by a hypothetical group move 400p straight forward.

Scenario 1: The enemy line is all within range, facing the other way BUT at a slight angle to the marchers.  In this case ?a  hypothetical group move 400p straight ahead? wouldn?t contact all enemy elements and consequently wouldn?t be allowed.

1 is certainly OK IMO - contact can include teh optional extra movement to allow lining up, so the enemy being at an angle makes no difference.

Back to my scenario 1 shown above where the enemy line is at a slight angle.  The actual rules state the move must be a hypothetical group move ?straight forward?, doesn?t say anything about lining up.  One thing I have learnt the hard way is not to read in anything that is not explicitly stated.   

I agree with AB about this particular rule being confusing.  However not sure if his alternative wouldn?t rise similar issues.

what if point C was replaced with a simpler exception of being entirely behind the front edge of all other known enemy within 400p?

 For example I could see a scenario where a light horse unit sneaks to the enemy rear table edge then expends a number of PIPs to race alone the edge within a couple of centimetres of the rear of a number of enemy units to hit the baggage camp.

[Aloysius the Gaul]

contact doesn't have to be full edge to edge - that's lining up. 

You can contact with just a corner or half and edge or some other less than optimal arrangement to fulfil the need to contact - and then use the optional movement to line up - 2 different things.

I agree that the wording isn't great, but it is undestandable with some thought.

[dg]

As far as I can see a further (extensive) series of diagrams to elucidate various points would be a massive aid.
I am still confused about the PIP cost of an irregular group wheeling, as well as this discussion..

[bunwin63]

Irregular group wheeling:

1 for the move
+1 for the wheel (difficult evolution)
+1 if it moves less than maximum distance (difficult evolution)
+1 if "clumsy" irregular, ie not Cv(O), light troops etc

[toby]

So the minimum cost is 2 PIPs for a group of Cv(O) or lights whose outside corner moves full move.

If they are other troops and they want to move short, it would be 4 PIPs.

Once you start mixing foot and mounted, including Hordes or wheeling on your 3rd march move you can easily get it up to 6 or 7 PIPs

[Aloysius the Gaul]

I think someone once calculated hte maximum possible cost for a single element move was 8 or 9 PIPs - a disheartened Hd that moved closer to enemy, short distance, lacking general, orders changed last bound, marched having already made 2 march moves...

[toby]

Only Brilliant generals need apply

[dg]

Irregular group wheeling:

1 for the move
+1 for the wheel (difficult evolution)
+1 if it moves less than maximum distance (difficult evolution)
+1 if "clumsy" irregular, ie not Cv(O), light troops etc

Aha - simple really 


Before I get really stuck into DBMM I will wait for the diagrams

[loki223]

Irr AX (any grade) can wheel for only 1 pip right?

there is no +1 for wheeling with light troops right. even though they are IRR???

[toby]

All groups except a single element wide column pay 1 extra PIP to wheel.

Irregular lights don't pay a further PIP on top of that for being irregular.

So a group of Irr Ax(I) will pay two PIPs to wheel, same as a group of Reg Bd(O).

[loki223]

ooops we were doing that wrong.