Early Mycanean/Minoan

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi

Was looking to update my smallish (350pts) Dbm Early Mycanean army for Dbmm and it seems the Dbm list is well out of whack with Dbmm.
Originally the list had all the Spearmen with fig-8 shields as PkX with PsO as supports this was later changed (2nd edt lists) to PkX with PkI in 2nd rank and PsO in support.
However in Dbmm for the PsO to add a benefit the 2 ranks supported must be of same grade as well as type.
So do you think will new list revert to all being PkX or will the poor old Mycaneans be forced to field all PkI if they want to use Ps support. I assume the fig-8 shields give them the 'X' status ?

Cheers
Gary

[Aloysius the Gaul]

it's a guess either way.

I'd get whatever you like per the DBM list - there are already exceptions to the normal rear support rules in some lists in the draft Bk III - eg Pre-Samurai Japs get Bw(O) supporting Bw(S) on DBE's - something not permitted by the rules.

[toby]

Its not definitive that the Bw(O) will be able to support the Bw(S) yet....

If the Ps(O) can't support the mixed Pk, its a bit of an oversight as a lot of armies use Pk(X)/Pk(I). I suppose that most of them don't get the Ps support though.

[toby]

I've checked my copy of the rules and you get the Ps(O) support if the front two ranks are of the same type. Pike is the type so there is no problem mixing Pk(I) and Pk(X).

[toby]

At the moment the configuration that I am playing with is:

1 command with 10 Kn(F) (the punch command)

1 command with a couple of Kn(F) and Cv(O) (the refused flank)

1 command with a vast number of Pk (the pin or pivot)

The pike command will be so large it will need to be broken for the army to break.

I am thinking that the best way to use regular generals in DBMM is to give them each very specific roles and commands to take advantage of the fact that you always know how the dice are going to fall each turn.

[Hammy]

Blimey Toby, how big is your army???

You have a 24ME knight command (at least) and another command with some ME in it. For the Pk to be at least half of the army it is going to be an awful lot of pike.

Hammy

[toby]

I can't remember - I have it on a scrap of paper somewhere. Its not so much the Pk as the Ps(I). At 1 AP for 0.5 ME they are very efficient filler

Toby

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Toby

a very belated response but am trying out my Minoans tomorrow so...........

I've checked my copy of the rules and you get the Ps(O) support if the front two ranks are of the same type. Pike is the type so there is no problem mixing Pk(I) and Pk(X).

Are you sure the 'same type' refers just to Pike or do they have to also be of same grade ?
I can read it either way although your 'method' seems more logical overall

Cheers
Gary

[Richa_Eire]

Hi Gary

Well I used my Mycenean's last night. The army list was:

C in C Kn(F)
16 Pk(X)
16(Pk(I)
16 Ps(O) Supporting Pike
2 Irr Ps (O)

48 ME

Then two identical commands as follows:

Sub General Kn(F)
7 Kn(F)
2 Ps(O
4 Ps(I)
24 ME each

and a baggage command of 6 Irr Bg(I).

I played against Early Achaemanid's with all tricks (WWg(S), Scythed Chariots etc).... It was
a good game and the Kn(F) are both manoeverable and effective but Pikes are completely ineffective.

What on earth can Pk face off succesfully ? Knights seems about it really. The Persian bow just
machinegunned them (including the Pk(X)) counting as superior) and the WWg (s) well, it really
was not pretty. And they don't count ranks against Cavalry... So imo all they seem to have got
is an extra march move to speed up the dying part.... And considering Phil wanted to defang bow
I don't believe he has achieved this. All we are going to see is Bw(X)/Bw(?) armies with decent
mounted in support, Cav or Kn superior for choice....

Ah well. BTW are you and the Britains going to play in the comps at Warfare or just going for the
trade show ?? A Cork contingent is also considering travelling....

Cheers

Richard A
 

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Rochard

>Well I used my Mycenean's last night.
I used mine last week (couple of photos in pics folder in Dbmm Yahoo list)

>The army list was:
Cant remember mine exactly but essentially
CIC with 11 KnF
SG with 12 PkX + 12 PkI, 6 PsO in support 2 KnF and some Irr PsI
SG with same except some extra Irr PsO archers
6 Army Baggage 

>I played against Early Achaemanid's
I played Stephen Brittain using Hittite Empire

>It was a good game and the Kn(F) are both manoeverable and effective but Pikes are completely ineffective.
Mine was great fun too with a mass melee of my KnF vs Hittite KnO (oppossing Cmds both broken). The F factor cost me about 6 elements. As you say the PkX/I are rather brittle. Hittites had nasty mix of foot (PkF, Wb) that one of my Pike cmds had to deal with, and succumbed pretty quickly (ie 2 turns)

>And considering Phil wanted to defang bow I don't believe he has achieved this.
Well I think bow are a tad less potent overall in Dbmm than Dbm (where I felt they were like GPMGs !) but BwX is a tough type to deal with to be sure.

>Ah well.
Indeed Minoans are a brittle 2 dimensional army but they look pretty and still fun to field/use.
Not a 'competition' army though 

>BTW are you and the Britains going to play in the comps at Warfare or just going for the
>trade show ?? A Cork contingent is also considering travelling....
We are indeed travelling to Warfare and had originally intended to play in Dbmm comp but were very wary ref being allowed carrying figs on flights as hand luggage (no definitive answer from airlines) so will be 'forced' into lead purchase frenzy (our return flight on Sun is around teatime so unlikely we would have time for 4th game anyhow)

Hopefully see you there if you lot travel anyhow ?

Cheers
Gary

[Richa_Eire]

Hi Gary

Carrying figures through airports really is not a problem.... I have flown to Belfast for the Q-Con
comp and the Celtic with no problems in Belfast at all. They look at the figures but thats it. Talk
to Seamus Mckenna about it, or Dave Houston. I use one of the expanding camera case type
boxes - and I know Dave H has one of these you can borrow. In the last year I have flown in and
out of Cork, Dublin, Belfast, Helsinki, Lisbon and Manchester carrying the armies as hand luggage and
all I have had is the security guys wanting a look. Obviously tell them the figures are fragile and put
it on the conveyor yourself.... Alternatively William down here has bought the Kaiser Rushforth boxes
and is now putting his armies in the bag for the hold - no damage to the figures, and they were
Seleucids painted by John Lavery, so lots of pikes, lances etc with potential for damage...... Steve B
has my email if you want any more advice.

You should come and play in the comp as well, even with potential for cutting short the last game.
At the moment there are three Cork based, and one Dublin based players going over for the comp.
All flying through Heathrow. So it could be an excellent Island of Ireland gathering over in Berkshire 

Richard

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Richard

>Carrying figures through airports really is not a problem....
Just got an email from Stephen Brittain who has had a chat about fig carriage with Dave Houston so yes it seems to be ok to/from Belfast/Heathrow.

>You should come and play in the comp as well, even with potential for cutting short the last game.
Hmmm............arrrggghhh................eeerrrrr................will have to now have a hard re-think about wether we/I want to play or shop ? although as my games tend to be short and brutal I may find time for both !! 
Not sure its fair on other players however for us to be 'ruining' last game..................................

> So it could be an excellent Island of Ireland gathering over in Berkshire
Indeed as long as you realise I am a 'Hound Of Ulster' type 

Cheers
Gary

[Richa_Eire]

Hmmm............arrrggghhh................eeerrrrr................will have to now have a hard re-think about wether we/I want to play or shop ? although as my games tend to be short and brutal I may find time for both !! 
Not sure its fair on other players however for us to be 'ruining' last game..................................

At Reading it is possible to do both - and I am in contact with the organiser and the umpire quite
regularly, should be easy to ensure your last game is against each other which will give extra
shopping time over the sunday lunch..... it was sorted for Rob Brennan two years ago.

Indeed as long as you realise I am a 'Hound Of Ulster' type 

Does that make us Cork Rebels...... 

Cheers

Rich

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Richard

Will discuss wether to play or not with Stephen and John when Stephen returns from his hols (next Wed)

Cheers
Gary