Several quick questions

[landmeister]

Dear all,

I have some quick questions after my first complete DBMM game. I've found some problems I I would appreciate the wisdom of other players.

1) Excuse my rude words, but where the hell can I find the rules explaining what happens when an enemy is pused back or recoils on my flank, rear corner or rear edge? We've had to solve it as in DBM!!
2) Is or is not Army Baggage ME added to ALL commands contributing it? I mean: I had 3 commands with army Baggage deployed in the C-in-C's command. Are these additional 3 ME added to ALL commands or just on that of the C-in-C?
3) Can single irregular elements other than Lights, generals, etc, wheel and/or turn 180?? ie, must they pay more PIPs as difficult evolutions?

I think I will have to quit playing DBM. Too much contradictory info in my tiny head 

Thank you in advance.

[loki223]

I think I will have to quit playing DBM. Too much contradictory info in my tiny head 

Ahhhh Yes, Why play Checkers when you can play chess.....lol

I know its no help but fun.

[DaveMather]

Ahhhh Yes, Why play Checkers when you can play chess.....lol

I know its no help but fun.

Because chess is the richer and eventually the more rewarding experience

No pain No gain 

[DaveMather]

1) Excuse my rude words, but where the hell can I find the rules explaining what happens when an enemy is pused back or recoils on my flank, rear corner or rear edge? We've had to solve it as in DBM!!

Depends on circumstances - if there is frontal contact then they (opponents on flank and/or rear) will recoil see 3rd para under Combat Outcome p38

If no frontal combat see previous posts

2) Is or is not Army Baggage ME added to ALL commands contributing it? I mean: I had 3 commands with army Baggage deployed in the C-in-C's command.

It is added to all commands (other than allies) so it would add (assuming 6 elements) 3ME to all commands and 3ME for itself adding to the overall army total

see also http://dbmm.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=3&id=17&Itemid=29

3) Can single irregular elements other than Lights, generals, etc, wheel and/or turn 180?? ie, must they pay more PIPs as difficult evolutions?

(d) Difficult Evolutions are only applicable to Groups so are ignored by single elements (thus e1 will never apply to single elements)

A single Irr Cv (O) element can spin around to its heart's content (because it is not an Inept Irregular)
A single element of Irr Cv(S) turning for example 180 degrees will pay an extra PIP under e2 because it is not moving straight ahead

NOTE - A single element of Irr Cv(S) can move straight ahead 1mm for only 1PIP - its only if it deviates from straight ahead does it pay the extra PIP

I think I will have to quit playing DBM. Too much contradictory info in my tiny head 

Thank you in advance.

I am afraid DBM and DBMM do not mix well - simliar but very different
To play DBMM you have to unlearn DBM  

 

Thank you in advance.

Nae problem - in very good mood - Thank the wine and the England rugby team - England humbled - priceless

Regards

David (born and raised the north side of the wall) Mather 

[landmeister]

Depends on circumstances - if there is frontal contact then they (opponents on flank and/or rear) will recoil see 3rd para under Combat Outcome p38

If no frontal combat see previous posts

Sorry. I didn't explain myself. I can find what happens when my elements are in combat and must/mustn't recoil. what I can't find is what will happen to my archers offering a flank or rear corner behind an enemy that will have to recoil if I win my frontal combat against it, for example. All info in page 38 is related to troops in close combat. What I need is what happens with my friends not in combat when recoiled into by enemies I win.

It is added to all commands (other than allies) so it would add (assuming 6 elements) 3ME to all commands and 3ME for itself adding to the overall army total

see also http://dbmm.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=3&id=17&Itemid=29

Yes, I already read that clarification, but it is about a 4 command structure. My question is a 3 command one. I understand that EVERY command will have 3 additional ME, but as I have no fourth command, I will NOT add 3 additional ME. Right?

(d) Difficult Evolutions are only applicable to Groups so are ignored by single elements (thus e1 will never apply to single elements)

Sorry, but (e)1 says: "If a single land element...". But youy're right, (d) mentions groups only  . Isn't it contradictory? This is more difficult than I thought  . Please, correct me, but I can read the following:

(e)1: "If a single land element....include any irregulars other than..., and either: (e)2 Performs any evolution listed immediately above." I accept that evolutions are referred to groups only, but...Why Phil makes things like this!!  :'(.

A single Irr Cv (O) element can spin around to its heart's content (because it is not an Inept Irregular)
A single element of Irr Cv(S) turning for example 180 degrees will pay an extra PIP under e2 because it is not moving straight ahead

Don't you mean (e)3? If not, you agree with my previous reading, isn't it? 

NOTE - A single element of Irr Cv(S) can move straight ahead 1mm for only 1PIP - its only if it deviates from straight ahead does it pay the extra PIP

I will not ask the logic behind it. Too much for my mental habilities 

I am afraid DBM and DBMM do not mix well - simliar but very different
To play DBMM you have to unlearn DBM  

Amen, brother! 
 

Nae problem - in very good mood - Thank the wine and the England rugby team - England humbled - priceless

Regards

David (born and raised the north side of the wall) Mather 

Errr, sorry. I'm Spanish so I don't understand the meaning of it. Another difficulty for playing DBMM? 

Even so, let me express my gratitude to your patience again.

[DaveMather]

It is added to all commands (other than allies) so it would add (assuming 6 elements) 3ME to all commands and 3ME for itself adding to the overall army total

see also http://dbmm.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=3&id=17&Itemid=29

Yes, I already read that clarification, but it is about a 4 command structure. My question is a 3 command one. I understand that EVERY command will have 3 additional ME, but as I have no fourth command, I will NOT add 3 additional ME. Right?

The army baggage is a command in its own right

Lets assume the following

Command 1  C-in-C and 9 Cv (S)
Command 2  Sub and 10 LH(S)
Command 3  Sub and 18 Bd(O)
you have 6 elements of Bg(O) as army baggage - this is Command 4

Your ME totals per command and hence army is

Command 1 = 4 for the gen 9 x 2 =18 for the Cv(S) and 6 x .5 =3 for the army baggage TOTAL ME 25
Command 2 = 4 for the sub 10 x 1 =10 for the LH(S) and 6 x .5 =3 for the army baggage TOTAL ME 17
Command 3 = 4 for the sub 18 x 1 =18 for the Bd(O) and  6 x .5 =3 for the army baggage TOTAL ME 25
Command 4 = 6 x .5 =3 for the army baggage TOTAL ME 3

Total ME for the Army = 25+17+25+3 =70

You are correct that the army baggage is "assigned" to a command (the c-in-cs in your example) but only for deployment purposes - eg included in its deployment rectangle

However command 4/the army baggage still has a dice - although if its Bg(O) it can't do much with it - If Bg(F) it can use it to move - if the baggage is regular you have the PIP dump
  Regards


David Mather

[DaveMather]

Sorry, but (e)1 says: "If a single land element...". But youy're right, (d) mentions groups only  . Isn't it contradictory? This is more difficult than I thought  . Please, correct me, but I can read the following:

(e)1: "If a single land element....include any irregulars other than..., and either: (e)2 Performs any evolution listed immediately above." I accept that evolutions are referred to groups only, but...Why Phil makes things like this!!  :'(.

Sorry my fault - I disregard the first bullet point - it either should not have been there or the 3 below it should have been indented -

Reread my answer with
e1 being Performs any ....
e2 being Any element moves ...

Regards

David Mather

[DaveMather]

Nae problem - in very good mood - Thank the wine and the England rugby team - England humbled - priceless

Regards

David (born and raised the north side of the wall) Mather 

Errr, sorry. I'm Spanish so I don't understand the meaning of it. Another difficulty for playing DBMM? 

Reference to England's humiliating defeat by South Africa 36-0 in the Rugby World Cup a couple of hours before

I am Scottish hence most of our great sporting moments come when England lose (Scots English love hate relationship - we unite against common enemies/threats etc  and become British) 

[DaveMather]

Sorry. I didn't explain myself. I can find what happens when my elements are in combat and must/mustn't recoil. what I can't find is what will happen to my archers offering a flank or rear corner behind an enemy that will have to recoil if I win my frontal combat against it, for example. All info in page 38 is related to troops in close combat. What I need is what happens with my friends not in combat when recoiled into by enemies I win.

Think I understand you now

Nothing will happen to your archers - the enemy will recoil as far as it can and stop (when it reaches your archers) - it (the enemy) will be penalised if nobody moves next bound because it has

-1 If troops or terrain already in contact with its rear edge or rear corner would prevent any recoil

The key bits are RECOILING ELEMENTS 2nd para

the exception are Bg(F) or (I) as per last sentence in the 3rd para

IIRC this was very different in DBM - but DBM is now a faded memory


Regards

David Mather

[landmeister]

Thank you for your first response.
Thank you for your second response
ROFLMAO for your third response 

And finally,

Nothing will happen to your archers - the enemy will recoil as far as it can and stop (when it reaches your archers) - it (the enemy) will be penalised if nobody moves next bound because it has

-1 If troops or terrain already in contact with its rear edge or rear corner would prevent any recoil

The key bits are RECOILING ELEMENTS 2nd para

the exception are Bg(F) or (I) as per last sentence in the 3rd para

IIRC this was very different in DBM - but DBM is now a faded memory

Regards

David Mather

I see. But new and terrible questions arise from your words. No one dies nor is killed by partial recoilers!!  . That's perfect for my archers but I won't be able to kill anyone by pushing him against an obstacle other that attacked on the rear!! Following this logic, no matter that elements can't recoil anymore. They will just have an eternal -1 until I double them. In this case why an attack on the rear effectively kills an enemy?

Please, don't get  me wrong, but I 'm afraid DBM is NOT a so faded memory to me. I'ts EXTREMELY different in DBM  :'(

Once again, thank you very much.

[LAP1964]

Dave Mather wrote,

You are correct that the army baggage is "assigned" to a command (the c-in-cs in your example) but only for deployment purposes - eg included in its deployment rectangle

Can you tell where in the rules it says army baggage is "assigned" to a command.As on page 22 it only mentions baggage under the command of a general.                                 
                       Les.

[DaveMather]

Les

Its my attempt to explain the below from Baggage p9 (its why I put quotes around assigned) - its in my mind its "assigned" to a command for deployment purposes.

"All other baggage is held in common as Army Baggage. Each non-allied command not having command baggage shares the effects of Army Baggage and it deploys in 1 of them."

Regards


David Mather

[LAP1964]

The only problem with this is you want to use the command,as a concealed command,baggage (O) has to be deployed on the rear table
edge(if your army has no other type of baggage).I think  it should just be noted as rear, left-centre-right.Also i do not think think it should used to get
arouned the fact that an inert general must have a positive AP total for command by assigning army baggage to it.(see dbmm list message#51729)
                                                         Les