Threat Zone one more time

[Olivero]

Hello guys,

I feel (almost) sorry to ask about threat zones one more time.
In a game a situation more or less like in the diagram came up. It was ruled that the knight element can neither attack the Cv nor the horde or the Psiloi.

This does not satisfy me, I think in real life the Kn would be able to attack someone. So I have three questions:

1. Did we interpret the rules correctly?
2. If yes, does that bother you? Do you see a problem here?
3. If you think 1 is correct, without regard to question 2, what would happen if there was one additional rule, something like this: "After contacting an enemy element a group or single element only reacts to that element's Threat Zone." The idea is, that in situations like this multiple threat zones and/or geometry would not hinder an attack if contact with one enemy element is possible. After that, further rules regarding moving obstructing elements would come into play....

Thanks a lot for your thoughts here 

[Barritus]

G'day Olivero, and welcome to the forum.

It's a while since I've played a game, but I can assure you pretty strongly (until some actual rules experts arrive) that the answer to question 1 is No.

The key lies in Threat Zones on page 32 and Moving Into Close Combat on page 33 of the rules.

The first dot point of TZs says that moves which start in an enemy TZ "must...line up in front-edge to front-edge combat with the contacted enemy element most directly in front." Seeing as your diagram suggests the only element TZing Alexander is Darius's element, then Alexander's element must contact Darius.

Okay, so the Ps and Hd elements are blocking Alexander's path to Darius. Moving Into Close Combat first says "geometric ploys cannot be used to prevent enemy contact." And in the case of enemy obstructing elements which aren't in combat or providing rear support (Ps and Hd in this case) they "...must immediately be moved...out of the way."

Figure 10b on page 57 is probably the closest illustration to your situation - an enemy element which is not in contact or providing rear support is moved out of the way to allow a moving element to make contact.

Sure, it's a fiddly thing to work through, but the key is the underlying concept from page 33: "It is an absolute requirement that troops that would move into close combat in real life must do so in the game."

[Fon Tok Nak]

I sympathize. If I was Alexander, I can see Darius and so would want to get at him to show him who is boss.

However, for 1, my answer would be yes, you have been correct and Alexander has to sit and fume.

To contact the Cv, the Kn requires a space to go through. The rule is that space must be 80 paces. Here, the space between the Ps and the Hd is less, so the Kn cannot get through.

This doesn't bother me because if the Ps and Hd pivoted backwards, the space between their rear corners would get smaller until it became negligible and perhaps this wouldn't become an issue.

Consider also, if the Cv were not there at all, would the Kn be allowed to pass between the Ps and the Hd? No. There has to be a space rule, and the rule is a base width.

Page 57 comes into play only after contact has been made.

Sorry, I know it's not the answer you were hoping for.

Anthony

[Barritus]

I've read what Fon Tok Nak said, and realise he's right and I'm wrong.

In particular, moving blocking elements out of the way only happens after contact has happened, in order to allow contacting elements to conform.

Given the situation outlined in the OP, there are two possible solutions for Alexander to get to Darius:

1. This bound, move Alexander backwards in accordance with the TZ rules until he's well out of Darius's TZ; next bound, move Alexander into contact with either the Hd element or the Ps element; after destroying that element, move into contact with Darius (if he's still around).

2. This bound, move a group of elements into contact with either the Hd element or the Ps element in such a way that when it conforms to the group it widens the gap enough that Alexander can move through the gap this bound to contact Darius.

As Fon Tok Nak says, there has to be a space rule, and the rule is a base width.

It may be worth taking a step back and considering the broader tactical situation. Alexander's facing three elements, and he wants to get to the one that's behind the other two. If he wants to do it all himself, then it's going to take time by going through the one of the elements in front and then getting to Darius (if he's still hanging around). Otherwise, if he wants to get to Darius this bound, he's going to need some other friendly troops to help him.

So regarding your questions 2 and 3, I don't think an extra rule is required beyond what's already there. The issue is not so much that the arrangement of Persian elements has set up some sort of impenetrable TZ that prevent Alexander from attacking at all. Instead, the arrangement of Persian elements has set up a situation that requires Alexander to back off this bound and come in next bound at a different angle (or call in some friends to help open the path this bound). Given the tactical situation Alexander is in (outnumbered 3 to 1) I think that's a reasonable pair of alternative resolutions.