Help interpreting lists

[Barritus]

There are a couple of cases of inconsistent wording in the lists, and I was wondering if anyone might have some insights into how we should interpret the wording.

1. One troop type "replacing" another.

In the lists, upgrades are usually well explained, such as upgrading All/none Toltec-Chichimec Bd (I) to Bd (F).

But changes to troops labelled as "replacing" are less easy to follow.

For example, in the Romanian Frank army, from 1312, I can have 5-12 Irr Kn (O), but I can "replace" 0-10 of them with Reg Kn (O). Okay, I'm reasonably sure that means I can have 0-10 Reg Kn (O), and can then take some Irr Kn (O) as well, to the number of (5-12) minus the number of Reg Kn (O) I've taken. So, for example, if I take 8 Reg Kn (O), I can then take 0-4 Irr Kn (O).

But what about the Anglo-Irish? I can take 4-12 Irr Kn (O). From 1293 I replace 2-6 of them with Irr Cv (I). Does this mean the entry for the Irr Kn (O) is deleted and replaced with the Irr Cv (I) entry? Or (as I suspect is the case) is it that I have to take 2-6 Irr Cv (I), and however many I take is deducted from the number of Irr Kn (O) I can take? So, for example, if I take 3 Irr Cv (I), I can then take 1-9 Irr Kn (O).

The reason I ask is that, in ordinary English usage, when you want to be precise in what you're writing about, different words will have different meanings. But in these lists different words are used with what appears to be the same meaning. For example, in the Anglo-Irish list the word "downgrade" is used in a way which appears to mean exactly the same thing as "replace": from 1328 you downgrade 1/2 to all Irr Kn (O) to Irr Cv (O).

Why the different word? Why are some Irr Kn (O) "replaced" with Irr Cv (I), but other Irr Kn (O) are "downgraded" to Irr Cv (O)? Is there a difference other than the word used? If so, what is that other difference? If not, why use the different word? It simply causes confusion.

2. Number of Bge elements available.

The rules say ('Baggage' page 9) that each general has 0-2 baggage elements plus any Baggage (S) its army list permits. Thus, for example, the Communal Italian army can have 0-2 Bge (O) per general, and also has a Bge (S) Carroccio.

But there are other armies where a Bge (S) that is available only at the apparent expense of normal baggage elements. For example, in the Arab Conquest list 0-1 Bge (S) is available, but only by replacing one of the army's normal baggage elements. The same goes for the Norse Irish Cathach reliquary and clerical escort Bge (S) element, which replaces a normal baggage element.

First thing, how does this work with the rules, when the rules say Bge (S) is in addition to the normal baggage. Can I ignore the list and take 2 baggage elements in addition to the Bge (S) element? Or do I have to ignore what the rules say about having 2 baggage elements plus the Bge (S) element?

Second, if the list is to take precedence over the rules, how does it work in practice? Does this mean the Bge (S) element is required to be allocated to a baggage command with the rest of the baggage elements, or can it be allocated to the command itself, and thus provide its combat bonus to adjacent troops as well as its enhanced ME to the command?

Thank you!

[LawrenceG1]

Usually "replace" means a completely different troop type (different guys), whereas "downgrade" means they are a less good instance of the same troop type (same guys, less armour or whatever). Your interpretations regarding numbers look sound.

If Bge(S) replace other baggage then clearly you cannot have both the Bge(S) and the element they replace. Like any other baggage, they can be in the baggage command or retained in the general's command. When Bge(S) are additional to the normal baggage, the rule you mention allows a general to have them over and above the normal 0-2 Bge limit.

[Fon Tok Nak]

1. The use of replace and, later, regrade shows that one particular troop type is increasingly changing for another. So, after replacing 2-6 Kn with Cv then regrading half the remaining Kn with more Cv, you will end up with at least half+2 of the Kn as Cv.  Initially, the Anglo-Irish can have a maximum of 15 Kn (inc 3 gens), which becomes 13 +2 Cv (minimum), which becomes 6 + 8 or 9 Cv. In other words, to take 6 Kn at the later date, you must take at least 8 Cv (generals may be either and count towards the respective totals).

2. BgS are additional *as its army list permits*, so the rules are saying one must follow the conditions of the army list to get BgS.

Thus, in the Arab Conquest list, if you take the Prophet's black tent, that is over and above the 2 Bg per command. Note, it must be command baggage as it is a general. As a general, it counts as 4ME (not 3 or 7!), so there is no ME benefit for being BgS. However, as BgS, it adds in combat to adjacent elements.

If you take the women later, that is *not* over and above the normal allowance, so you will lose one BgO/F (and the command losing that baggage will get the 3ME from the women instead of the normal 1ME for the baggage replaced). However, the women must go in the army baggage command.

Lists often dictate where BgS can be. The women in the Arab Conquest list must go in the army baggage command as noted above. In the Zanj list, they must be command baggage. If the list does not stipulate, then you have a choice.

Anthony