Hidden plashing TF - is it an element?

[andrew]

Hi

I was looking at the Gallic list 2.11 released at the end of January and noticed they have a line :

Plashed wood edge - TF @ 2AP : 0-12

Assuming there is a wood on the table (so that the Gauls can get their plashing) and assuming the plashing is used inside the wood (which is historically accurate) then do you have to place the plashing on the table at the time of deployment?  I think not - the visibility within a wood is 40 paces (for plashing and troops that have not moved or shot out, per page 25) - so you wouldn't have to reveal the plashing until there was an enemy element at or within 40 paces of it.

But my question is this : do you have to use the Ambush stratagem to hide the plashing in the wood?  And if so, does each 80 pace wide strip of plashing count towards the number elements you are allowed to hide in ambush?  In other words, is plashing considered to be an 'element'?  Or can you simply hide the plashing in the wood without using the ambush stratagem?

Thanks in advance
Andrew

[toby]

I think that fortifications (TF and PF) are specifically defined as _not_ being elements.

So I would assume that you couldn't use an ambush to hide it. I think TF need to be deployed at deployment time unless they are Hidden Obstacles, but need to check.

[andrew]

Hi Toby

Thanks for replying.  I guess I was driving at two things : namely the 2nd paragraph under 'Visibility' on page 25.  It states : "...plashing cannot be seen from beyond 40p if in woods...", and secondly the 'Hidden Obstacle' stratagem (page 16) states "Plashing is a TF, not an obstacle".

Historically this tactic was used as a 'surprise' so if I were using the Gauls I would be disappointed if I had to deploy the plashing during the deployment phase, given it cannot be used as a hidden obstacle (within the rules and there is nothing in the list) nor as an ambush.  I believe you are right in that an ambush only applies to troops because per the first line of the ambush stratagem : 'Small bodies of troops...'.

So I guess it really comes down to this : if plashing cannot be seen from beyond 40 paces, must it be deployed during the deployment stage?  If not, then how does one conceal the plashing within the current wording of the rules?

Regards and keep up the good work!
Andrew

[toby]

Hmmm, yes the can't be seen beyond 40 paces does imply that they should be hidden. On for the commentary document methinks - I will try and remember for the next draft. If its not in there, give me a poke.

[andrew]

Actually I found something in the 'ambush' section of the rules last night after I posted the question.  Page 7 under 'Ambush' stratagem, the last sentence says : "an ambush cannot include a general....., baggage or fortifications except plashing.....in a wood."

So you do have to use the ambush stratagem and I'm not sure if it counts towards the 8 elements or not.  I think not because I don't think TF is an element - but I can't find the relevant part of the rules.

Cheers and thanks for answering!
Andrew

[andrew]

In addition : page 22 paragraph 3 states "the army deploying first now places all elements ..... and any ..... TF ..... except plashing or barricades part of an ambush."  I would interpret that as you do not need to initially deploy the plashing TF provided you have taken the ambush stratagem and the number of hidden plashing pieces does not exceed the frontage of the number of elements in ambush.  I believe any TF over and above the number used to cover the front of ambushing elements would need to be initially deployed.  Hmmm - it may have helped if I had read all of the rules instead of piecemeal.......

So I think this is resolved.......?  The only question that remains is whether the TF count towards the number of elements in ambush but I don't think that is the case.

Cheers
Andrew

[toby]

Good spot. I guess it means you have to have an ambush strategem and the plashing next to the ambushing troops.

I have cross posted on the DBMM List - I'll add this in.

[El Sod]

In addition : page 22 paragraph 3 states "the army deploying first now places all elements ..... and any ..... TF ..... except plashing or barricades part of an ambush."  I would interpret that as you do not need to initially deploy the plashing TF provided you have taken the ambush stratagem and the number of hidden plashing pieces does not exceed the frontage of the number of elements in ambush.  I believe any TF over and above the number used to cover the front of ambushing elements would need to be initially deployed.  Hmmm - it may have helped if I had read all of the rules instead of piecemeal.......

So I think this is resolved.......?  The only question that remains is whether the TF count towards the number of elements in ambush but I don't think that is the case.

I can't see any reason why you would need to deploy any that "exceed the frontage of the elements in ambush" since they're "part of" the ambush. Also, since you place "all elements ... and any ... TF ... except plashing or barricades part of an ambush", it is clear that plashing is not an element. the rule is elements *and*                        plashing, TF etc, not elements, including.

[andrew]

Hmmm - I'm not so sure about that.  The reason I said "does not exceed the frontage of the number of elements in ambush" is because if a unit of plashing has no ambushing elements behind it then I don't think (just my opinion) it is part of the ambush.  There may be an exception in the rules that I'm not aware of, but a quick read hasn't turned up anything.  If you wanted to conceal plashing with no hidden elements behind it then it may be counted towards the 8 (or 16) elements you can hide in ambush....?

How about this?  Lets say your opponent deployed a unit of plashing with nothing behind and you wander into it inside a wood (starting from outside 40 paces).  The TF has no combat factor so I presume it does not fight.  Plashing is defined as not being a hidden obstacle so troops who crossed it (assuming they can cross it - see next sentence) do not make a spontaneous advance.  Under the 'storming fortifications' heading (page 42) it says "Mounted troops can only assault TF".  Assuming you aren't sending your mounted into the wood (it would be mad to unless you used a Guide stratagem) and it was foot that contacted the TF, does this mean the foot cannot fight the TF?  Is the plashing simply removed or must the foot move around the TF?

On a side note we played the Battle Cry tournament in Auckland over the weekend, and in the first round I used the ambush stratagem against EI Romans.  A column of AxS came wandering into the woods in a single column only to be jumped on by my PsO, flanked on one side and a flank wrapped on the other - BOOM! 2 dead AxS in the first round of combat.  Very nice   I wouldn't normally fight Ax with Ps but the Ax never got a chance to fight the Ps on their terms given a flank march arrived on that very flank the next bound.  Although the game deservedly ended in a draw .....