Author Topic: Are spontaneous columns an option?  (Read 2968 times)

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foxgom

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Are spontaneous columns an option?
« on: March 27, 2008, 10:22:01 PM »
Hi

Page 30 spontaneous advance:

"... must make a spontaneous advance as either individual elements or a column".

"the direction must be any of...... unless in column behind another moving element...into contact..with the closest enemy..."

Say I have a column of impetuous light horse who have enemy about 160p to their left and have no Pips for any movement or halt.
Can I say
" ok, I choose the option of moving as individual elements"?
The column dissolves and  all the light horse move as individuals, contacting the enemy elements to my left.

or do I have to move the lead element first and the rest have to follow him, thus contacting the enemy in a bent column?

Neil Fox

MikeCampbell

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Re: Are spontaneous columns an option?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2008, 02:03:06 AM »
As I read it if you move into contact you can only do so as a column - you can do any of the other options as individual elements, but not moving into contact if starting in a column.

landmeister

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Re: Are spontaneous columns an option?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2008, 03:45:07 PM »
As I read it if you move into contact you can only do so as a column - you can do any of the other options as individual elements, but not moving into contact if starting in a column.

I disagree. I think you can choose both options for all cases. What I'm not sure of is if that column should be bent. I would say you should line up all elements with the heading one.

Tim Child

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Re: Are spontaneous columns an option?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2008, 12:56:47 AM »
As I read it if you move into contact you can only do so as a column - you can do any of the other options as individual elements, but not moving into contact if starting in a column.

I disagree. I think you can choose both options for all cases. What I'm not sure of is if that column should be bent. I would say you should line up all elements with the heading one.

Figure 16 clearly shows that a column CAN be bent if need be to avoid contacting other elements.  The notes to the figure seem to suggest that you only do so, however, to avoid making what would be in that example an illegal contact.

Unfortunately, I think that there are two ways of reading the "unless in a column" bullet-point on p.30. 

The first line of the second paragraph "Impetuous troops must make a spontaneous advance as either individual elements or a column unless", makes it clear that impetuous movement can be a group move as a column if so chosen.

That leaves the "Unless in a column behind another moving element" section as having two possible alternatives:-

1.  The "Unless in a column" is prohibitive - If you start in a column you can't move into front edge combat or overlap; or

2.  The "Unless in a column" is permissive - If you choose to move as column, it is not necessary for the second and subsequent elements of the column to end up in front edge combat or overlap positions (which clearly they would not do).

My view is that 1 is probably right, i.e. that Phil's intention was to stop the Norman Mounted Display Team  effect.   :)

Tim Child

landmeister

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Re: Are spontaneous columns an option?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2008, 09:43:34 AM »
1.  The "Unless in a column" is prohibitive - If you start in a column you can't move into front edge combat or overlap; or

2.  The "Unless in a column" is permissive - If you choose to move as column, it is not necessary for the second and subsequent elements of the column to end up in front edge combat or overlap positions (which clearly they would not do).

My view is that 1 is probably right, i.e. that Phil's intention was to stop the Norman Mounted Display Team  effect.   :)

Mmmmm...Interesting analysis!  :o. I think I agree with you. Just curiosity, what's the Norman Mounted Display Team  effect?  ???

MikeCampbell

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Re: Are spontaneous columns an option?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2008, 10:53:52 PM »
Yes I can see the 2 ways of reading it too.

IMO the "unless in column" refers back to the statement that you can make a spontaneous advance as single elements or as columns......so "unless in column" is stopping you from making single element moves with any of those elements in the rear of the column befoer the 1st element moves.

But it coudl be worded better!


Hammy

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Re: Are spontaneous columns an option?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 11:40:37 PM »
Yes I can see the 2 ways of reading it too.

IMO the "unless in column" refers back to the statement that you can make a spontaneous advance as single elements or as columns......so "unless in column" is stopping you from making single element moves with any of those elements in the rear of the column befoer the 1st element moves.

But it coudl be worded better!



From the two games I played against Chris Hanley where I tried very hard to push the spontaneous moves I gathered that if you are in a column you must move as a column. If you want elements of the column to do stuff other than follow behind you need to spend PIPs.

Platypus

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Re: Are spontaneous columns an option?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 10:34:23 AM »
I also think that you have to stay in column, so yes, move the front element and the rest follow, sometimes as a "bent column". See fig 16 and the last sentence in "Pushed-back elements" on p41 for what happens when in contact and if recoiled afterwards.

Norman Mounted Display Team (NMDT) was an impetous maneuver. You moved a column of Kn(F) so that it was parallel to enemy (but facing to the side). The next bound you let it go spontaneously and the elements of the column move sideways towards the enemy.

The bit about following elements in column pretty much stops that.

There is another concept called the Khazak Mounted Display Team (KMDT), usually for light horse or cavalry where you maneuver the column outside march distance of the enemy. Wheel the front element 90 degrees in one move, then expand on that element in the next. See (halfway down)......

http://www.nwa.org.au/dbx/dbmtactics/column-line.html

and

http://fanaticus.org/DBA/variants/varkmdt.html

The KMDT still works in DBMM, but sometimes you can just do the same thing with a 90 degree turn.

G^is,
JohnG