Inert Generals

[Valentinian Victor]

Right, I'm having some difficulty in determing exactly the cost of Inert Generals. Is the cost of the general reduced by 75 points (in effect you dont get 75AP of extra troops)? Or is the General zero points and you get another 75AP of troops?

[landmeister]

Right, I'm having some difficulty in determing exactly the cost of Inert Generals. Is the cost of the general reduced by 75 points (in effect you dont get 75AP of extra troops)? Or is the General zero points and you get another 75AP of troops?

The general costs what it costs. Then you are given 75 AP, so yes, you don't get "nett" 75 AP for your army.

[Marcel Bos]

The cost of an inert general can be negative. E.g. A regular C-in-C who is inert cost 20-75= -55 points.
The total points of his command must be positive. (p. 15 last sentence in Brilliant or Inert Generals).
(If you can use Excel, you can try the DBMM Army List Generator, availlable on www.dbmm.org.uk.)

[Valentinian Victor]

Thanks for the replies.
Final point- What are all the penalties for having an Inert C-in-C, Sub-General or Ally General? Having difficulty in tracking this down in the rule book.

[Marcel Bos]

Only a few stratagems are available (p.15 'Stratagems') and there is a PIP-deduction (p. 26 'inert generals'). Of course an inert C-in-C don't takes the first bound (p.26 'sequence of play')

[landmeister]

Only a few stratagems are available (p.15 'Stratagems') and there is a PIP-deduction (p. 26 'inert generals'). Of course an inert C-in-C don't takes the first bound (p.26 'sequence of play')

...and his impetuous troops never move spontanously! 

[MikeCampbell]

There's actually 1 stratagem that is cheaper for inert CinC's - delayed battle........

[landmeister]

And what happens when a regular subgeneral gets a 1 PIP dice with an Inert C-in-C? Can he still have its free PIP? I would say no because an Inert deduct 1 PIP to all his subordinates and this means that this command will have 0 PIP. The free PIP for regulars must be substracted from those available, so you cannot substract something from zero. Is this correct?

[landmeister]

An additional question. How are Inerts counted on DBMM 200? Let's see an example. I have an Inert Reg Cv (S) C-in-C. Its additional cost is +20 for a reglar general -75 for Inert, totalling -55 AP. Is this number then halved to -27.5?

Thank you

[LAP1964]

Hi i think he would cost in DBMM 200,
Reg Cv(S) =10
General cost =10
Inert -75 halved = -37.5 round down = -38 +20 = -18 ?     
LES

[landmeister]

This is how I calculated it initially, Les. But the rules say:

The extra or reduced cost of each general, including that of Brilliant or Inert is halved and rounded down. (Bold is mine)

I understand that both concepts are summed up together and then halved and rounded down. Is there any of the original testers of 2.0 here to help us? 

[Barritus]

And what happens when a regular subgeneral gets a 1 PIP dice with an Inert C-in-C? Can he still have its free PIP?

I say yes.

I would say no because an Inert deduct 1 PIP to all his subordinates and this means that this command will have 0 PIP.

Yes, if the sub-general is assigned 1 PIP, that gets reduced to 0.

The free PIP for regulars must be substracted from those available...

Where does it say that? I read the rules to say that that the "free PIP" is subtracted from the cost of the move, not from the PIPs available ("1 less PIP is expended...")

...so you cannot substract something from zero.

Irrelevant, see above.

Is this correct?

I don't think so.

Firstly, there's nothing I can see in the rules which says you have to have a PIP to spend in the first place. Rather, what you do is calculate the cost of each move in PIPs. For example, if you want to move a group of regulars with a sub-general straight forward at full speed in open terrain, the cost is 1 PIP (Each tactical move by a group) minus 1 PIP (one move by a regular group containing a sub-general) equalling 0 PIPs. Having calculated the cost (in this case 0 PIPs) you then move the group. I don't see anything in the rules which says or implies you have to spend a PIP first, and then get it refunded because of the general's presence.

Secondly, there are moves which cost 0 PIPs already - first march entirely along a road, first march by pike group, first march move by naval in good going. So the idea of a move which has an initial cost of 0 PIPs is established. As far as I'm concerned, if a command nominally has 0 PIPs, it can still move its naval group once, move some troops along a road once, and move a Pk group once.

[landmeister]

Secondly, there are moves which cost 0 PIPs already - first march entirely along a road, first march by pike group, first march move by naval in good going. So the idea of a move which has an initial cost of 0 PIPs is established. As far as I'm concerned, if a command nominally has 0 PIPs, it can still move its naval group once, move some troops along a road once, and move a Pk group once.

So could you move a regular group containing a regular sub-general straight ahead forward with this "1 PIP less" in this case?

[Barritus]

Secondly, there are moves which cost 0 PIPs already - first march entirely along a road, first march by pike group, first march move by naval in good going. So the idea of a move which has an initial cost of 0 PIPs is established. As far as I'm concerned, if a command nominally has 0 PIPs, it can still move its naval group once, move some troops along a road once, and move a Pk group once.

So could you move a regular group containing a regular sub-general straight ahead forward with this "1 PIP less" in this case?

Yes, I don't see why not. As I said above:

...if you want to move a group of regulars with a sub-general straight forward at full speed in open terrain, the cost is 1 PIP (Each tactical move by a group) minus 1 PIP (one move by a regular group containing a sub-general) equalling 0 PIPs.

[landmeister]

Ok. Thank you very much.