Still discovering the 80 p extra move

[landmeister]

Hi all,

I'm playing DBMM for more than 1 year and I'm afraid I'm still discovering new things.  In my last battle my opponent moved forward a group of Kn against my group of Bw(I). They hadn't enough move to contact ANY of my elements, but all of them were TZ-ed by them. Then he took my poor peasants and atracted them into his Kn because:

Page 33
"A...TZ-ed element or group that is not lined up moves up to an extra 1 base width (80p) to do so if the extra movement is used only to line up with an enemy front...".

As all of them were TZ-ed, all were pushed into oblivion!! 

Just curiosity. Was this the intention of the author?

Thank you


 

[MikeCampbell]

In that situation it is to line up, not to contact - ie to get directly opposite.

[landmeister]

But the whole paragraph is dedicated to line up in close combat. There is no distinction between a contacting, a contacted and a TZ-ed element. All of them MUST move 80 p to line up in close combat. Was this the original intention of the author? 

[dcfvgbhn]

But the whole paragraph is dedicated to line up in close combat. There is no distinction between a contacting, a contacted and a TZ-ed element.

I was shocked the fist time my troops were "attracted" by the enemy. I can't see the logic behind it other than creating an artifact to stop previous DBM gamesmanship. 

But hey, you can use it too. It can be useful for your troops when moving short of enemy but within your TZ. 

[Barritus]

But the whole paragraph is dedicated to line up in close combat. There is no distinction between a contacting, a contacted and a TZ-ed element. All of them MUST move 80 p to line up in close combat. Was this the original intention of the author? 

You're not reading the whole rule. Have a look at how the move is achieved:

by (a) a sideways shift and/or (b) wheel or pivot...

There's nothing there that allows forward movement from the edge of a TZ to contact. The intent is to ensure that at the end of movement, troops which are in contact or in a TZ are lined up with each other - that is, that their edges are aligned - regardless of how far apart they are.

[landmeister]

Mmmm...Very interesting, indeed!  . Now I see clearly why a group of up to 8 elements wide can pivot to line up in close combat. A pivot is specifically allowed! I believed that a pivot was a variant of a 'forward' lining up move This forum is priceless.

Thank you Barritus! 

[Barritus]

Mmmm...Very interesting, indeed!  . Now I see clearly why a group of up to 8 elements wide can pivot to line up in close combat. A pivot is specifically allowed! I believed that a pivot was a variant of a 'forward' lining up move This forum is priceless.

Pivots are defined on page 28 in Single Element Moves:

A pivot is a rotation by a single element around (a) a stationary front corner, or (b) the point of contact with another element.

So there's no such thing as a pivot by a group.

Thank you Barritus! 

Uh, no worries. 

[landmeister]

Sorry Barritus,

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I mean that your explanation as why a group cannot be attracted by en enemy is clear. I've seen the light! 

The key question is contact. A TZ-ed element or group is not contacting nor being contacted, so can't be "moved forward" against the enemy. A different thing is an enemy group contacted. Then it must use the 80 p extra move to be lined up in close combat by b) a wheel or pivot.

Just that, thank you. 

[william]

 >:(does this compulsory lining up by conntacting or TZ-eding mean that that figure 14 on page 57 is irrelevant as blade x has been contacted he must now line up, does this also mean that all attacked troops should line up to the enemy rather than the other way arround if the enemy choices and when does this line up take place, at the end of the movement phase or staight away ( so your enemy can know get into your rear by dragging your troops out of place )?

[landmeister]

>:(does this compulsory lining up by conntacting or TZ-eding mean that that figure 14 on page 57 is irrelevant as blade x has been contacted he must now line up, does this also mean that all attacked troops should line up to the enemy rather than the other way arround if the enemy choices and when does this line up take place, at the end of the movement phase or staight away ( so your enemy can know get into your rear by dragging your troops out of place )?

Interesting question, william. I would say that:

1. You are a single element contacting a single enemy element. You can choose which element lines up to the opponent.

2. You are a single element contacting an enemy group (I mean, one of its elements). You can't choose. You must line up to your opponent.

3. You are a group contacting a single enemy element. You can choose which element lines up to the opponent. Yes, you can choose that one of your elements line up to the opponent, so breaking the group.

4. You are a group contactnig an enemy group. You can choose which group lines up to the other, except:
    4.1. When conditions of figure 14 are met, your opponent can choose only.

In all cases, the extra move is made immediately, not at then of the movement phase.

I hope it helps.

[LawrenceG]

Normally the moving player must line up. The section "Moving into close combat" on page 33 includes various exceptions to this. If you read that section I think you will find Landmeister did not get it 100% correct.

He was right that whoever lines up does it immediately, so it is possible to pull enemy elements out of the way to open up space for you to do other moves. 

[landmeister]

Normally the moving player must line up. The section "Moving into close combat" on page 33 includes various exceptions to this. If you read that section I think you will find Landmeister did not get it 100% correct.

Hi Larry,

Please, don't get me wrong, but could you tell me where am I wrong?