Short move ending in contact with friends

[andrew]

Hi

There was another question popping up from a game today.

Page 27 : difficult evolution includes a short group move "unless it ends in any contact with friends not already in edge contact with it".

To claim the exemption from the PIP penalty, does such a pre-existing "edge contact" have to not exist:
a) only at the time you are short-moving the troops;
b) only at the start of the bound, or
c) for the duration of your bound?

Thanks
Andrew

[landmeister]

This question is very, very interesting  . I'm suprprised that no one have asked it before. I thought it was so clear that the answer was evident. I was wrong  .

I would say option b), but I cannot defend it properly, it's only my intuition 

[Valentinian Victor]

I think this is a move designed to get the moving element/elements into contact with another of your groups to form a larger group. Therefore, no pip penalty is incurred. I believe you must not be in the pre-existing contact at the start of the bound.

[andrew]

A friend and I recently identified this as an area for trying to keep Warband under control - and then of course the question arose over the table.....

Historically DBx has no 'memory' but I'm not sure how that translates to this situation.

The bound option is a sensible option given it prevents a user of Warband from reforming by moving the rearmost column of formerly spontaneously moving elements first, and then other column such that form up on the front rank - this is cheesy so I too would dismiss option a.

I have always played option c) until we came across a situation yesterday and my opponent queried it.  My opponent moved some mounted troops their full move such that the front edge was just beyond the front of a group of Psiloi - but the side edge of the mounted was now in contact with the side edge of the Psiloi.  My opponent then tried to move the group of Psiloi short so the front edge of the group of Psiloi was in line with the front edge of the group of mounted.  Under option b) such a move would be allowed without PIP penalty given they were not in edge contact at the start of the bound - but should it?  Under option c) it wouldn't be allowed.....

Cheers
Andrew

[foxgom]

Hi

The rules (P27) state "unless it ends in any contact with friends not already in edge contact with it".

This form of the present tense implies to me the situation right now, at the start of the current elements move and not the state of things 10 seconds ago at the beginning of the bound.


neil fox

[andrew]

Hi Neil

I don't necessarily agree but I don't necessarily disagree either - I'm curious to hear other opinions. 

Consider the following scenario:

Let's say we have a block of Warband O 3 wide by 3 deep and we lose control of them.  All 3 columns move straight ahead with the middle column set back 5-10 paces from the left and right columns.  All 3 columns are still in edge to edge contact, but not aligned frontally.

In the next bound we get 3 PIPS that we can now spend on the 3 columns of Warband.  Lets say we first move the middle column its full move for 1 PIP which puts it out of edge contact with the other 2 columns.  We then elect to short move both the left and right columns such that all 3 columns are aligned on the front edge and we have reformed the group.  Under option a (of checking this at the time of moving), we can ignore the fact they were in edge to edge contact at the start of the bound and can focus on only the move we are making right now.  So once the middle column has moved first, neither of the side columns are in edge contact with the middle column, and we can short the two outside columns without PIP penalty.  3 PIPS, 3 moves.  Do you think this would be ok?

Andrew

[foxgom]

In the next bound we get 3 PIPS that we can now spend on the 3 columns of Warband.  Lets say we first move the middle column its full move for 1 PIP which puts it out of edge contact with the other 2 columns.  We then elect to short move both the left and right columns such that all 3 columns are aligned on the front edge and we have reformed the group.  Under option a (of checking this at the time of moving), we can ignore the fact they were in edge to edge contact at the start of the bound and can focus on only the move we are making right now.  So once the middle column has moved first, neither of the side columns are in edge contact with the middle column, and we can short the two outside columns without PIP penalty.  3 PIPS, 3 moves.  Do you think this would be ok?

Andrew

Hi

sounds ok to me.

the alternative would be to move two of the columns for 1 PIP and the third  one for 2 PIPs making total of 4 PIPs. 
Whether a move costs 3 or 4 PIPs is no really big difference, unless you have rolled a 3  .
Both cases are inconvenient in in the big picture and a waste of PIPs.


neil

[andrew]

   That would make for a very interesting debate across the table!

Andrew

[MikeCampbell]

In DBMM each move is seperate - seperately paid for & seperately assessed for circumstances.

So (IMO as always) the assessment for being not in edge contact "already" has only 1 time it can be assessed - that is when the element is beign moved.  Adn within that timeframe there is only 1 point where it makes sense - at the start of the move.

[landmeister]

In DBMM each move is seperate - seperately paid for & seperately assessed for circumstances.

So (IMO as always) the assessment for being not in edge contact "already" has only 1 time it can be assessed - that is when the element is beign moved.  Adn within that timeframe there is only 1 point where it makes sense - at the start of the move.

I agree