Repulse with enemy in flank

[foxgom]

Hi

An old topic:

see
http://dbmm.org.uk/forums/index.php?topic)0.msg1642#msg1642

and attachment.

Ax 1 is attacked by 2 Ps.
The fight is a draw.
Ax 1 chooses to repulse.
Page 38 "If an elements total is equal to that of it?s opponents..."

Page 41 "repulsed elements"
"but only if it could do so without contacting ... an enemy element or TZ....."

If you contact something, then you start not in contact, then you move and touch them.
Ax 1 does not contact Ps 2 during the recoil, as they were already in contact.
It makes no sense to argue about the TZ of Ps2, as, after the recoil, Ax1 is still in the TZ of Ps 1.
This would mean no element could ever repulse.

I think that repulse is an option, even if you have a flank contact.

This was agreed on the DBMM forum
http://dbmm.org.uk/forums/index.php?topic)0.msg1642#msg1642

However the Italians understand the phrasing that Ax1 contacts / is still in contact with Ps 2 after the recoil and therefore a repulse is not an option.

It would be good to have a clear official statement on this one.


neil

[landmeister]

I've always played as it was agreed in thid forum but I must admit that what Italians say is a very interesting vision  .

I agree with you. We need an oficial clarification soon.

[MikeCampbell]

I think the Italians got it wrong.

the wording in DBMM on what hapens when you recoil with enemy in contact with your flank is completely different from DBM - and people are confusing the 2.

Firstly - there is NOTHING in DBMM that says that you die if you have to recoil with enemy in contact with your flank.  Instead there is now a combat result for beaten but more than half that says that you are destroyed if you have enemy in contact with your flank.

That applies to all mounted and foot elements (note not train or naval!).

Secondly - this combat result (destroyed if enemy in contact with your flank) does not apply to a tied result.

thirdly - after the recoil the repulsing element does not CONTACT an enemy TZ - it is already in it - to contact it you start outside it and come into contact with it.

We have repulsed in this situation several times that I can recall - mostly with cavalry tho.

[andrew]

That is news to me but after a quick read of the rules and clarifications I can't see anything that prevents a repulse move.  The repulse and recoil move rules make no mention of this situation and are quite specific as to when you can't make a repulse or recoil move.  Nice catch.

[Lorenzomele2001]

I think this is just a wording problem. We always read "contacting enemy element" as including one in contact, but if you tell me that in english this means contacting new ones it's ok for me.

[MikeCampbell]

I'm not a gramar guru so I had to look up the technical aspects on dic.com!

?verb (used with object) 9. to put or bring into contact.
10. to communicate with: We'll contact you by mail or telephone. 
?verb (used without object) 11. to enter into or be in contact.

In this case the verb is used with an object (enemy) therefore, as I read it, it means the definition as per 9 - to put or bring into contact - therefore it does not include already being in contact (which is the verb without an object).

note that contact can also be a noun - in which case it can mean already touching.