movement of columns

[LawrenceG]

If I have a column consisting of a LH(F) at the front and an Art(S) behind it, what speed does it move ?

[william]

  Hello again Lawrence,

Of the cuff and showing my ignorence once more I would say that the column moves at the speed of Art(S) for the cost of 2 pips per move no matter how many moves it makes in the bound.

I am of course probably very wrong.

I also note that if it was Art(F) wit the Lh(F), it ( the column ) would move at Art(F) speed and cost 1 pip for the first move and 2 for any subsequent moves.

William

[MikeCampbell]

Moves as Art(S) - "A group move cannot exceed the maximum move distance of its slowest element." - last para page 28.

As William noted it pays 2 PIPs per move - 1+1 for including train

[LawrenceG]

What about two LH(F) in column, in difficult going, the front one will end out of the difficult but the second one will still be in it if they move at good going speed. What speed do they move?

[MikeCampbell]

All groups move at the speed of the slowest element - what's the slowest element?

[andrew]

What about two LH(F) in column, in difficult going, the front one will end out of the difficult but the second one will still be in it if they move at good going speed. What speed do they move?

160 paces.  If the GGo move would result in any elements of the group still in the DGo, then it is the DGo move.  If you can get the entire group out of the DGo with your GGo move, then you can use the GGo move.  Note the F grading makes no difference to mounted movement distance when part of the move is in DGo.

Interesting observation : I just noticed the extra movement for F grading doesn't apply to moves on roads....hmmmm, must remember that.....

[LawrenceG]

How about:

2 LH in column in DGo (difficult going).

The front LH is on a road, facing along the road.
However, the road turns a corner behind the front LH, so the second LH is not on the road.

The move will be a march.

If they move at road march speed, both elements will end out of the DGo, otherwise at least will end inthe DGo.

The way I think this works, the rear LH is not moving entirely along the road, so the column moves at DGo speed. Is that right?

[landmeister]

The way I think this works, the rear LH is not moving entirely along the road, so the column moves at DGo speed. Is that right?

It is, IMHO.

[LawrenceG]

Now consider the same column. This time it has moved along the road to get to the corner. The front element has wheeled around the corner to reach the postion identical to the example above. The second element has not yet wheeled, so it is not lined up behind the front element, but is on the road.

How far can this column move?

[andrew]

How about:

2 LH in column in DGo (difficult going).

The front LH is on a road, facing along the road.
However, the road turns a corner behind the front LH, so the second LH is not on the road.

The move will be a march.

If they move at road march speed, both elements will end out of the DGo, otherwise at least will end inthe DGo.

The way I think this works, the rear LH is not moving entirely along the road, so the column moves at DGo speed. Is that right?

This depends.  I have seen differing interpretations of 'marching entirely along a road' based on the previous sentence which says 'groups front corners' - some take this to mean that if both the groups front corners are on the road then the move is the road speed, others interpret it as landmesiter has, that the entire group is not on the road so it doesn't move at the road speed.  But I tend to take the more conservative viewpoint that the road move is not used.

[andrew]

Now consider the same column. This time it has moved along the road to get to the corner. The front element has wheeled around the corner to reach the postion identical to the example above. The second element has not yet wheeled, so it is not lined up behind the front element, but is on the road.

How far can this column move?

Anything up to and including 640 paces and if it is the groups first move this bound then it costs zero PIPs, irrespective of the distance moved.  If it is a march move entirely along the road (and in this case the entire group is on the road so no questions there) then the maximum movement distance is that on the road, regardless of whether or not you clear the DGo - the DGo is irrelevant for march moves on roads.

Note the kinked column is still treated as a column and you only measure the move distance for the lead element of the column.  In any case, movement along a road must be in a column so you could only have ended up as a kinked column on a road (by definition), by already being in a column.  No other formation is allowed on a road if you wish to claim the 'road movement' speed.

Andrew

[LawrenceG]

But isn't the second element treated as if lined up behind the first, which would make the situation identical to the previous example in which the group could only move at DGo speed ?

[MikeCampbell]

Only if you choose to follow that particular illogical interpretation.

It should be no great problem to decide that all teh elements move at eth speed fo the front element - as written in the para about columns on page 29 - so eth front element moves it's full speed and all the following elements in the column then move the same distance.

[andrew]

But isn't the second element treated as if lined up behind the first, which would make the situation identical to the previous example in which the group could only move at DGo speed ?

I didn't see the two examples as being the same unless I have misunderstood something.  In the first the 2nd element was in a column but off the road, in the latter the 2nd element was in a column but on the road.

[MikeCampbell]

You need to read this to understand what he's talking about - http://dbmm.org.uk/forums/index.php?topic=430.0

IMO he's wrong.