No Munster side stepping please.

[william]

  Now this got my hackles up.

Can an element slide using the EMTLU to flank lock an enemy or contact an enemy in the flank even if the slide enters the TZ of an enemy ?

I said no, my regular opponent said that it was ruled the other way in another competition. What would be the general consensus on this, as well as which would be the correct position according to the rules.

My opinion for what it's worth is that the EMTLU is still a move and must obey TZ rules, if not how is it possible to protect Flanks.

This clearly needs sorting.

William

[LawrenceG]

My opinion for what it's worth is that the EMTLU is still a move and must obey TZ rules, if not how is it possible to protect Flanks.

William

I agree with this. TZ also applies to spontaneous advances.
Outcome moves, flee and rout are explicitly excluded inthe TZ section.

[MikeCampbell]

Yep - me too.

however remember that you dont' have to line up on hte front corner any more - if a TZ prevents you from doing so then you can still make legal contact as long as you contact the entire enemy flank edge, so you still have to be closer to protect flanks than you did in DBM.

[andrew]

Me three!  The TZ rules state "ANY move that..." - a slide using EMTLU is a move.

[william]

Yep - me too.

however remember that you dont' have to line up on hte front corner any more - if a TZ prevents you from doing so then you can still make legal contact as long as you contact the entire enemy flank edge, so you still have to be closer to protect flanks than you did in DBM.

  yes one only has to contact the entire side edge to count as flanking, but some times at least one can protect the second rank ( especially in a QK situation ), slightly related to this does a flanking element have to make front corner to front corner contact if possible.

And thanks to the people agreeing with me.

William

[Richa_Eire]

Hi All - as the instigator of the debate I feel I need to state my case:

The restrictions on moving in TZ's are straightforward. The third bullet point
allows you to line up in close combat with an enemy element that your front
edge has already contacted. So if you take the example of an element whose
side edge is not completely protected by a supporting elements TZ. You move
your element into front edge contact with that side edge. You are then allowed
to move through a TZ to line up as your front edge has already contacted.

If you use the EMTLU 80 paces to slide then the EMTLU sections specifically says

A contacting, contacted or TZ-ed element or group that is not lined up can move an extra 1 base width (80p) if this is used only to line up with an enemy front, flank or rear edge (or fortification) by (a) a sideways shift

As you move sideways you enter/reach the protecting elements TZ. A TZ-ed element can move to line
up with an enemy flank edge. The TZ restrictions allow you to move to line up with an element your
front edge has already contacted. I can see that you cannot slide into a second or third element behind
as your front edge has not already contacted it.

So as far as I can see it is allowable. However you can still protect the flanks of friends as long as
your protecting TZ's element covers the whole side edge of the element it is protecting. In the case of 4cm
deep elements you need to be next to the rear corner. 3 cm deep you need to be 1 cm behind. But the
days of a miniscule portion of a TZ protecting a flank are gone (to me this is a good thing).

William ruled against this and I accepted it. However in the cold light of day I think he is wrong, and my
reasoning is above....

Now tell me where my interpretation is wrong - because I want to know.

[william]

Hi All - as the instigator of the debate I feel I need to state my case:

As you move sideways you enter/reach the protecting elements TZ. A TZ-ed element can move to line
up with an enemy flank edge. The TZ restrictions allow you to move to line up with an element your
front edge has already contacted. I can see that you cannot slide into a second or third element behind
as your front edge has not already contacted it.

Sorry Richard, and this is not aimed at you but this is the bit that I can not find ( and yes I have probably missed it ) but where does it say that a TZed element can flank contact an element.

Again I stress I could be wrong but within in a TZ I think one can only contact an element in FRONT EDGE to FRONT EDGE or as an OVERLAP not as a flank contact.

I do think I am right but am willing to issue a grovelling apology if I am wrong.

It never usually happens in our games as you usaully dance around me and hit me all over the place or I roll 6s ( and you roll your usual 1's).

William

[LawrenceG]

Hi All - as the instigator of the debate I feel I need to state my case:

The restrictions on moving in TZ's are straightforward. The third bullet point
allows you to line up in close combat with an enemy element that your front
edge has already contacted. So if you take the example of an element whose
side edge is not completely protected by a supporting elements TZ. You move
your element into front edge contact with that side edge. You are then allowed
to move through a TZ to line up as your front edge has already contacted.

...

Now tell me where my interpretation is wrong - because I want to know.

Your interpretation is wrong because you misread the TZ restriction:

The third bullet point allows you to line up in close combat with the front edge of an enemy element that your front edge has already contacted.