Pip costs

[Aloysius the Gaul]

1 PIP is expendid for:
Each march or tactical move by an element or group.
Each halt by a single impetuous, broken or naval element.
Each halt by a broken group or a group including impetuous irregulars.

And in a couple of places extra or less PIPs are required or

move...or halt....

"Both a group's front corners move less than maximum distance unless...

And

A halt is not a move,....

IMO in DBM you are only moving if you are making some type of action that is defined in DBMM as a move - ie tactical, march, spontaneous, flee, rout, recoil, pursue, press forward, etc.

the penlaty for moving short only applies to moves - and only for such moves as require PIPs in the first place

ergo a halt does not require extra PIPs for moving less than max distance because it is not a move in the DBMM sense.

however reading this section I've realised that we've been doing something wrong here anyway - the free move for pike is only for march moves - we've been giving them free tactical moves too, which has been damned useful for gettign into contact!

[toby]

Yes - free tactical moves for Pike would make them a little too manouverable!

[Aloysius the Gaul]

We were only giving it to them for straight ahead, so not a lot of manouvring was involved!! 

[toby]

OK - not manouverable, but a little too advantageously spontaneous.

[landmeister]

Hi,

I would like some clarifications about accumulative PIPs. Only DE specify that +1 PIP is needed for each bullet listed in it. But what happens to all other situations? For example:

a) How many additional Pips are needed to move a disheartened friend 840 p away from its general?
b) And how many if making a 3rd consecutive march move (assume it's irregular) used to contact enemy?

Let's suppose all moves are straight ahead at max speed.

Thank you.

[DaveMather]

You only count one instance of (a) -(f) with the one exception being (d) Difficult Evolutions - which will count an extra PIP for each applicable bullet

So in your examples

a) How many additional Pips are needed to move a disheartened friend 840 p away from its general?

This would be 2 PIPs in total 1 for the tactical move +1 for (a) Command Difficulty

b) And how many if making a 3rd consecutive march move (assume it's irregular) used to contact enemy?

This would also be 2 PIPs in total 1 for the tactical move +1 for (c) Unresponsive, Mixed or Forced Marching Troops

Let's suppose all moves are straight ahead at max speed.

Regards


David Mather

[landmeister]

I see. Thank you very much again. 

[madmike1]

A few scenarios some have been previously covered but I am still a bit unsure.

Scenario 1: Warband group 2 elements wide wheels

PIP Cost 4 PIPS
1 PIP to move
+1 diff evolution of the wheel
+1 Both a groups front corners movement is less than max move
+1 irreg ineptness

Scenario 2: single Reg Bd element turns ends up half a move from its starting position facing 90 degrees right

PIP Cost 1 PIPS
1 PIP to move
 
Scenario 3: single irreg Bd element turns ends up half a move from its starting position facing 90 degrees right

PIP Cost 2 PIPS
1 PIP to move
+1 irreg ineptness

[bunwin63]

All good, but a clarification for scenario 1:

The +1 penalty for both corners moving less than max only applies if the outside (wheeling) corner moves less than maximum (ie less than 160p or 200 if wb(F))

Bryan

[madmike1]

Thanks for the clarification on the PIP costs.   

The only issue I find confusing is the ?Difficult Evolution? for not moving max distance.  The rules state, Both a group?s front corners move less than max distance, unless it either (i) ends in any contact with friends not already in edge contact with it, (ii) ends with its front edge in contact with the enemy, (iii) ends when its front corner or front edge reaches the edge of rough , difficult or impassable going, (iv) turns 180 degree, or expands or turns 90 degree from column. 

Using the example of a 2 element wide warband group it starts its move by wheeling left 45 degrees and moving its max move.  Now the inside element remained stationary during the 45 degree wheel accordingly it doesn?t move as far as the outside element.   

The wording of the rule refers to ?Both? front corners of the group moving the max distance.  In the above example the inside corner of the group moves less than the outside corner.  Also exceptions listed under (iv) refer to instances of movement where the penalty doesn?t apply.     

[loki223]

i wonder if anyone is collecting up these "clarifications" into a volume that i could buy???

and attach it to the rules.

I bet there would be more pages in the Clarifications...lol

[bunwin63]

madmike

Using the example of a 2 element wide warband group it starts its move by wheeling left 45 degrees and moving its max move.  Now the inside element remained stationary during the 45 degree wheel accordingly it doesn?t move as far as the outside element.  

The wording of the rule refers to ?Both? front corners of the group moving the max distance.  In the above example the inside corner of the group moves less than the outside corner.  

This isn't a difficult evolution as at least one of the corners has moved maximum distance. For it to be a DE, both corners have to move less than maximum. It's a particularly clumsy sentence IMHO. A clearer way of saying it might have been "neither corner moves maximum distance"

Bryan

[LAP1964]

To Loki223 go www.dbmm.org.uk then click on resources theres a PDF to download

                                                                   Les

[madmike1]

  On rereading the BOTH corners moving less than the max move makes more sense now

[landmeister]

To Loki223 go www.dbmm.org.uk then click on resources theres a PDF to download

                                                                   Les

Sorry, could specify wich one? There are more than 30 documents and I can't see where!