Defending a fortified BUA

[Richa_Eire]

OK, I hope I explain this properly.....

A BUA surrounded by TF or PF. Elements lining the fortifications defending it.
The definition of difficult going defines a BUA as being difficult going for elements
that are more than 40 paces within it. So a 20mm or 15mm base depth element
is not in difficult going if defending the walls. All fine and dandy so far.

BUT what about a 40mm deep artillery element ? Is its base 1/2 in difficult going
and 1/2 in good going ? And if in two types of going it counts as being in the one
that slows mounted the most ergo difficult. Therefore it takes the -2 in combat for
being in difficult going.

Alternatively as the rules state you have to be "more than 40p" within the BUA, is
the element not more than 40p within as its front edge is lining the BUA ?

I'm not sure if Phil meant artillery in PF to count as being in difficult going.... having
played against his Late Romans with their PF tower under DBM I feel this really is
not the effect he was after.

What do the Brains Trust feel ?? Is this one for the commentary / clarification from Phil ?

Thanks

[MikeCampbell]

Artilery that want to shot out from a PF must be in towers (pg 11, 3rd para starting "Towers must be...") - so the towers presumably have to be big enough to accomodate them - the BUA only starts from the inside edge of hte tower.

simlarly you can, AFAIK, make a TF deep enough to plae artillery on without it going into the BUA.

[Richa_Eire]

Hi Mike

As far as I can tell fortifications have no depth as far as the game is concerned so
I don't think your solution helps.

However as the rules give neither a minimum or maximum depth for the TF they could,
I suppose, be modelled physically 2 feet deep - there is no restriction. Alternatively maybe they
are assumed to have no depth at all, however if you want to model them there must be
some depth.

So this gives the potential for a 16cm square BUA (1/2 FE) with 16 elements of TF costing
18 AP - including the compulsory gate. Then model the TF's as being 32cm deep. Makes
the BUA 80cm by 80cm. Place some roads, and hope they link the two long edges. Then place
the BUA towards your opponents edge. Couple this with an opponent can't deploy within 20cm of
fortifications and you could have nowhere your opponent could deploy.........

Also as shooting ranges are measured from the front of the TF this could become even more
ridiculous.

TBH I model my TF's as 2cm deep as this fits the resin fortifications I have. This then looks
reasonable on table and isn't taking the mickey too much.

I think my original query is potentially another retrograde from DBM - in DBM elements lining
a BUA were specifically exempted from being in difficult terrain.

Regards

Richard

[LawrenceG]

My suggestion would be to have an 80p square salient on your BUA, which the artillery would fit in, but no part of it would be oer 40 p from the edge. This would be for TF. As MIke pointed out, Art cannot shoot from PF unless in a tower.

[william]

As MIke pointed out, Art cannot shoot from PF unless in a tower.

Just showing my ignorance but why?

[Richa_Eire]

My suggestion would be to have an 80p square salient on your BUA, which the artillery would fit in, but no part of it would be oer 40 p from the edge. This would be for TF. As MIke pointed out, Art cannot shoot from PF unless in a tower.

You know Lawrence, your sneaky 

[william]

As MIke pointed out, Art cannot shoot from PF unless in a tower.

Just showing my ignorance but why?

Ok found out why, But Art can still defend PF and not shoot.

William

[MikeCampbell]

However as the rules give neither a minimum or maximum depth for the TF they could,
I suppose, be modelled physically 2 feet deep - there is no restriction. Alternatively maybe they
are assumed to have no depth at all, however if you want to model them there must be
some depth.

So this gives the potential for a 16cm square BUA (1/2 FE) with 16 elements of TF costing
18 AP - including the compulsory gate. Then model the TF's as being 32cm deep. Makes
the BUA 80cm by 80cm. Place some roads, and hope they link the two long edges. Then place
the BUA towards your opponents edge. Couple this with an opponent can't deploy within 20cm of
fortifications and you could have nowhere your opponent could deploy.........

Yep - it's not really a satisfactory state of affairs - it's been this way since hte dawn of DBM - depths for fortifications have never been specified IIRC.

I've never heard of it being badly abused tho - but it would still be better if the potential didn't exist in the first place!