Why are orchards/olive groves so tiny?

[DaveMather]

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Do you think the terrain feature should be removed after the scythed chariots leave, because the scythes have cut the plants down? ;-)

Or would that only be with an ambush of scythed chariots out of a vineyard? :-)
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Thats from a cornfield - hence good going ;-)

[william]

  Hello Dave,

I think ( and could be wrong ) that one can only place 3 1/2's FE, it also seems that one can only place 1 1/2 FE of Orchard, Olive Grove or any size Oasis.

Sort of right sort of wrong  - the important thing is to differentiate between when the rules are referring to cost and when to size

You cannot choose more than 3 1/2 FE sized features (emphasis on choose and size)

In my example as invader i had 2 x 1FE GH and 2 x 1/2 O

I have only chosen 2 1/2 sized features (the Orchards and/or Olive Groves )

I have chosen 2 1FE sized features that COST 1/2 FE each  (shouting for emphasis so apologies ) which are the 1FE GHs

I have thus CHOSEN 2 1 FE SIZED pieces and 2 1/2 SIZED pieces that COST 4 x 1/2 =2 FE

That covers that bit

GHs etc go down we now come to the orchards - I have 2

roll for the first it can be placed so it is - second is discarded as only 1 can be placed

if you fail to place the first you can then try and place the second

If both of us have Orchards then defender gets first bite at the cherry (its a cherry orchard  ) if that goes down invaders are discarded

You cannot place more than 1 dont believe anything stops you chosing 2
In placing 2 x 1 FE of gentle hills and 2 X 1/2 FE of orchards one is placing 4 X 1/2 FEs ( when one can only place a maximum of 3 ) and there is 1 to many orchards or olive groves.

Any way and further to the point why are you not placing as much marsh as possible to flee the cavalry/light horse into .  or are you ambushing your expendables ?

I used expendables a while back with the Pontics (25mm at Campaign) - i dropped the unusual troops stratagem in favour of ambush - depending on your aggression unusual troops may be 10Ap wasted - the lower the aggression the better it is - with ambush you can get the expendables out onto the wings - angle the terrain piece towards the centre and let it rip 

The GHs oft go on the flanks with the O more likely to be off centre -even in 25mm you can still get a couple of scythed chariots safgley tucked up in the orchard - and dont forget Elephants (even expendables) love cherry trees to hide in ;-)

Whilst on the subject of elephant expendables - what speed do they go through SF ?
Of course there was always the issue whether both players can place an orchard, olive grove or oasis, ( I think it was decided both can )

I think they both can pick them but only one gets placed


William
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Ok Dave ( there was really no need to hurt my eyes ), looking side ways at the screen I think I get your message.

Scythed Chariots in SF, well of course they should create lanes in them but ( quiz time again ) count the moves 80 paces as it is difficult going to them ( unless of course they are leaving the said SF ), even lawn mowers get stuck in long grass and I have not provided my Chariots with collecting bags. Serious question though, does that mean if Scythed chariots follow up into RGo they die ( back to Zama and away form those eastern promises )?


Mind You ( a nice relaxing green { peace and tranquility } ), Hannibal's wild elephants should really have reduced speeds when in or leaving Orchards or Vineyards in Autumn to accout for all that fermented fruit eaten ( or maybe a combat bonus ), from what I have seen on tv documentries being a round a drunken elephant is bad enough, being around a drunken herd is suicide

  Keep up the good work Dave ( especially on the Zama front ).

William

[DaveMather]

I wasnt talking about scythed chariots in SF rather the elephant expendables from Zama

do they, Hannibals elephants at Zama, treat SF as good going ?

cf baggage camels in D or SF


Kind Regards


David Mather

[william]

I wasnt talking about scythed chariots in SF rather the elephant expendables from Zama

do they, Hannibals elephants at Zama, treat SF as good going ?

cf baggage camels in D or SF


Kind Regards


David Mather

No they do not,

'Elephants count scrub as good going and rocky low ground or rocky gentle hills as difficult going. Camels of any troop type ETC'

I have always taken it that the rules do not state Elephants of any troop type therefore this does not apply to not EL elements such as a Baggage and expendables, therefore Scrub is Rgo for Hannibal's elephants as is rocky low ground and hills.

Strange but TBF when the rules were written Hannibal's elephants were not probably not considered to be a possibility ( though other expendable elephants do appear a few times in the lists ), it would also IMHO difficult to herd any type of wild herd ( or untrained herd ) to generate the speed needed to become full force expendales.

But it may well be worth a discussion in any future rules revision, it may also be worth pointing out then that African elephants in Namibia seem to handle dunes well enough. But till then

  William

[william]

  Speaking of Orchards and Olive Groves ( where this started ) would it be worth while in any Errata for book 3 that the compulsory DH or O for Nan Chao be changed because you can not put down a 1 FE size O down ( or can you chose illegal features or numbers of pieces then not place them )?

  William