War Wagons - Guide For The Bedufddled

[vexillia]

I put together the following.  Before I post this on my blog have I missed anything; with apologies for the formatting:

Moving As A Single Element:

Base PIP cost - 2 PIPs for each march or tactical moves.
Distance  - 160 paces (8 cm in 15 mm scale).
Option #1 - Straight ahead
Option #2 - Pivot less than 90 degrees.
Option #3  - About face - 3 PIPs.
Not allowed - Sideways or backwards  
    

Moving As Part Of A Group

PIP cost - +1 (group contains train element).
Distance - Max 160 paces (8 cm in 15 mm scale).
Option #1 - Straight ahead.
Option #2 - Wheel less than 90 degrees.
Option #3 - Standard column - line switches.  
    

Shooting / Distant Combat

Ineligible - If marched, fled, routed or wading.
Range - 240 paces (12 cm in 15 mm scale).
Shoot from - Front or flank edge (not rear) if stationary.
                    Flank edge if moved this bound.
Factors - +4 against all opponents.
               -1 if moved this bound.
               "Can't recoil" penalty does not apply.
WWg outcomes - Destroyed when losing to Artillery.
                            No recoil if lost combat.
                            Destroyed if doubled.
Opponents - Bows - destroyed if they lose.
                     Light Horse - spent if doubled.
                     Psiloi - flee if doubled.
    

Close Combat

Fighting edges - Front or flank (not rear).
Factors - +4 against all opponents.
               -1 if moved this bound.
               All overlaps (side edge only) are ignored.
               "Can't recoil" penalty does not apply.
               Single enemy attacking flank overlapped.
WWg outcomes - Destroyed when losing to Artillery.
                            No recoil if lost combat.
                            Destroyed if doubled.
Opponents - Superior (S) troops +1 if they lose.
                     Bows - destroyed if they lose.
                     Cavalry - repulsed if doubled.
                     Light Horse - spent if doubled.
                     Psiloi - flee if doubled.

[william]

  Nice Martin, thanks.

My only main inputwould be that WWg do not turn to face and count the first side contacted as the front, any other further edges contacted as a flank so basically they do not have a rear in combat.

I won't go into the pivoting and moving situation.

They also appear not to be able to form line from column straight ahead ( not sure about to the side ).

The pip costs may need to include an irregular Ineptness factor ( even though as you have stated 2 pips is the base pip cost ), I think it is still 2 pips for each march/tactical  by a group including train ( even a group with mounted,train & foot ) rather than +1.

Then there is the exceptions but you like to keep those to a minimum and anyway X and S may need a whole article themselves.

William

[vexillia]

My only main input would be that WWg do not turn to face and count the first side contacted as the front, any other further edges contacted as a flank so basically they do not have a rear in combat.

Good point.  I will add this. Do you have page reference for this?

They also appear not to be able to form line from column straight ahead ( not sure about to the side ).

Is this a move distance or pivot restriction? 

The pip costs may need to include an irregular Ineptness factor ( even though as you have stated 2 pips is the base pip cost ), I think it is still 2 pips for each march/tactical  by a group including train ( even a group with mounted,train & foot ) rather than +1.

I was going to add written notes on this as it makes Irregular WWg very expensive to move other than straight ahead.

Then there is the exceptions but you like to keep those to a minimum and anyway X and S may need a whole article themselves.

Ah you know me too well.   

I agree with the X & S comment and again may mention this in written notes.

[william]

My only main input would be that WWg do not turn to face and count the first side contacted as the front, any other further edges contacted as a flank so basically they do not have a rear in combat.

Good point.  I will add this. Do you have page reference for this?

Page 35 under turning to face ( last bullet ).

They also appear not to be able to form line from column straight ahead ( not sure about to the side ).

Is this a move distance or pivot restriction? 

I think it is a distance thing, to get to front corner to frnt corner contact is further than 160 paces ( I hope or else I am going to get lynched ).

The pip costs may need to include an irregular Ineptness factor ( even though as you have stated 2 pips is the base pip cost ), I think it is still 2 pips for each march/tactical  by a group including train ( even a group with mounted,train & foot ) rather than +1.

I was going to add written notes on this as it makes Irregular WWg very expensive to move other than straight ahead.

But as reasonable as regulars going straight a head.

Only other thing I can that may be important is except X they are 2 ME, which for Irregualar WWg can be a nice ME reserve.

William

[LawrenceG]

Possibly add in the movement section that they cannot move to contact enemy troops or fortifications (except (S) can fortifications and (X) can troops ) - page 33

[vexillia]

Possibly add in the movement section that they cannot move to contact enemy troops or fortifications (except (S) can fortifications and (X) can troops ) - page 33

Thanks I spotted this yesterday and have already added a note.

The only thing now stopping me publishing is the column / line stuff.  I'm hesitating because in the past these moves have been treated slightly differently to other moves.

[vexillia]

Page 35 under turning to face ( last bullet ).

Yep. Ta.

I think it is a distance thing, to get to front corner to frnt corner contact is further than 160 paces ( I hope or else I am going to get lynched ).

And Pythagorus agrees with you!  But can they do it if the first element is Bow for example; here distance isn't important but the means of movement is.  See new post.

Only other thing I can that may be important is except X they are 2 ME, which for Irregualar WWg can be a nice ME reserve.

Good point.

[vexillia]

So to deal with the column to line and the reverse stuff for WWg.  I think there are four main questions:

[1] WWg elements must move by pivots less than 90. So if the WWg is leading a column can it turn 90 and form a line?
[2] Likewise if a WWg is 2nd in an expanding column but there's no room to pivot.  Does this prevent expansion by WWgs?
[3] For 2 WWgs in column.  Does the lack of move distance prevent expansion: move 8 cm whilst distance required 8.9 cm?
[4] Contraction into column: do the same issues prevent this too?

I think we all know the answers but the column to line thing is a special part of the rules.  What do you think?

[vexillia]

Possibly add in the movement section that they cannot move to contact enemy troops or fortifications (except (S) can fortifications and (X) can troops ) - page 33

Done.  Ta.

[william]

So to deal with the column to line and the reverse stuff for WWg.  I think there are four main questions:

[1] WWg elements must move by pivots less than 90. So if the WWg is leading a column can it turn 90 and form a line?
[2] Likewise if a WWg is 2nd in an expanding column but there's no room to pivot.  Does this prevent expansion by WWgs?
[3] For 2 WWgs in column.  Does the lack of move distance prevent expansion: move 8 cm whilst distance required 8.9 cm?
[4] Contraction into column: do the same issues prevent this too?

I think we all know the answers but the column to line thing is a special part of the rules.  What do you think?

I think a lot of this comes under whether the WWg is moving in a group move, IMO (and this came up in a discussion about expendables) the restriction for changes in direction (wheels or pivots {what ever the difference is, and no I am not going there again}) of up to 90 degrees is only for single elements moves rather than group moves.

In [1] I think yes the WWg can pivot the 90 degrees to form line from column.

[2] If it has the legs then yes a WWg second in a group can form line from column straight ahead but this is the tricky one as some would say that this is completed as if by single element moves, IMO it is still a group move.

[3] Yes I do not think that these two WWg can expand to the front for lack of distance.

[4] I think WWgs can contract into line, as this would be a group move

William


Sorry no faces something wrong with the reply box my end so am cutting and pasting.

[vexillia]

Befuddled article now posted at http://tinyurl.com/nrbujr with the remaining contentious bits in grey.

[andrew]

Well done.

Another thing to consider is terrain and enemy dismounters - although this might fall into the 'every nuance' category, page 10 : Others can dismount only if ... less than 400p from ... enemy War Wagons on a hill. 

Also, you didn't mention the lack of 'turning to face' in your befuddled article - was that on purpose?  Lastly, WWg cannot move or deploy in difficult going and they incur a -1 tactical factor in rough terrain.

Andrew

[vexillia]

Well done.

You're welcome.

Another thing to consider is terrain and enemy dismounters - although this might fall into the 'every nuance' category, page 10 : Others can dismount only if ... less than 400p from ... enemy War Wagons on a hill. 

This is more to do with the troops dismounting than the WWg; if you see what I mean.

Also, you didn't mention the lack of 'turning to face' in your befuddled article - was that on purpose? 

Yes, is implicit in the first edge contacted bit.

Lastly, WWg cannot move or deploy in difficult going and they incur a -1 tactical factor in rough terrain.

Added.   May need to reformat.

Thanks.

[vexillia]

Reformatted version now available - http://tinyurl.com/nrbujr and no more comments William ;-)

[william]

Reformatted version now available - http://tinyurl.com/nrbujr and no more comments William ;-)

Apart from saying well done once more, my lips will be sealed, no utterences will I make, my silence will be deafening etc.

  William

Ps keep up the good work.