Rules for FO and HO

[rhardes]

Can someone clarify for me the rules on FO/HO?
I have a Viking army with the Leidang option (Book 3, army 40) which allows me to use FO@2AP.
In the rules on FO (page 11,16) clearly outlines that these are deployed as hidden objects.
The cost of the FO?s are stated as 2AP and my understanding is that it costs 2AP to use the stratagem, total cost 4 per FO.
So If I pay 4AP?s per FO I believe that I can use them as stated on page 11/16 of the rule book and deploy them as Hidden or if I pay 2 AP?s only I can use them as FO but not hidden.
The rules book is consistent that these are deployed as hidden but in the Army lists there are specific references to HO and FO as different item this has generated varied views on this in Perth and I wanted to get a wide or definitive clarification, anyone have an option?     
 

[foxgom]

Hi

the Vikings FO are felled trees and barricades of boulders.

I cannot imagine how such obstacles could count as being hidden.

These are FO and not HO.

There are very few lists with HO and these are always specifically mentioned.

neil

[rhardes]

Thanks for the comment.
The rules though (page 11/16) state that FO's can be HO's if the extra 2 AP's are paided and thats the question. Have I misunderstood the rules or are there some other clarifications I have missed?
 

[foxgom]

Hi

If you are using the lists, then HO are only allowed where HO are mentioned.

Not every FO may be converted to a HO.

neil

[rhardes]

What you say sounds fair Neil but I have used the rule book as the key reference.
I have book 3 and I can't see any clarification on FO's/HO's. Can you confirm where that is?
Does this also mean that Army lists supercede the Rules in someway or is it that the rules are just unclear on this point?
If this the way the rule is applied in the UK glubs? If so then I can get some AP's back.
I have played using them as hidden and placed and there is an advantage having them hidden but not a game breaker as in some games the battle took place away from were I had placed them and in others even through they were in the oppened the battle took place over them anyway.

The other point that I am unclear about is do your own troops get effected by them then crossing the FO's or do they know how to get through uneffected?
The rules talk about the effect for two bounds on Enemy troops crossing them not all troops so I can see an argument for saying only enemy but it would appear fair if they effected all troops.

Ray 

[foxgom]

Hi

examples from Book 3

HO
list 9 Burmese
list 18 Breton
list 39 Tang
list 50 Zanj
list 60 Vietnamese
list 69 Sudanese

FO
list 25 Arab
list 31 Ummayad


If you look at the descriptions, it pretty obvious which obstacles can be hiodeen and which cannot.
They count as 40p of difficult going (P11).
See also P30, 7th bullet.

FO cost 2  AP and the HO costs an extra +2, which unforntunately is not stated clearly in the rules.
I pointed this out and the newer lists repeatedly state that the HO cost the extra 2 AP.

neil