One about marches

[landmeister]

Once again, I feel a bit lost reading Barkerese  . According to the new rules of marching, single enemy elements can't stop marches. My question is, are single elements making marches stopped by single enemy elements? According to the first sentence on p.28, they don't, but then in the following paragraph dedicated to the exceptions only groups are specified as benefitted by avoiding the restriction of stopping marches. Could someone help, please? 

Thank you in advance.

[foxgom]

Hi

I cannot find anything to distinguish group marchers from single element marchers.

They are treated the same.

It is, however, a poor use of Pips zu march single elements. 

neil

[landmeister]

Hi Neil,

Probably there's no problem in the text itself, but I'm not a native English speaker, so this is why I have to admit that DBMM is "advanced English" for me  .

Ok, let's see. On page 28 we can read: "Each march move must start further than 400p rom all known enemy groups not beyond a friendly PF or TF..." No problem so far. It is clear that single enemy elements, initially, don't stop marches. My problem comes now: "...unless the marchers are a group of which all elements..." blah, blah, blah. I read that all exceptions to stopping marches are applicable to groups only. It seems clearly specified that only groups under any of those situations can benefit from moving on. What do you think? 

[foxgom]

Hi

your English is better than mine !

You are right:

Within 400p only groups and not single elements can keep marching straight ahead.

Outside 400p they are treated the same.

neil

[landmeister]

Well, I see that my classes are worth the money!   

Thank you, Neil.

[lorenzomele]

Hi

your English is better than mine !

You are right:

Within 400p only groups and not single elements can keep marching straight ahead.

Outside 400p they are treated the same.

neil

I agree

[landmeister]

I'm afraid I have more questions on this topic. I had a game last day and my opponent pointed out that single elements are simply ignored in the new marching rules. Let's look at it in detail.

The first sentence seems clear. No one can march within 400p of enemy group not beyond friendly fortifications. Here comes one of the key factors pointed out by my opponent. Only groups are specified, not enemy elements. This means that my elements ignore enemy groups, not single elements.

And then comes the long list of exceptions in which only friendly groups can march on under all conditions detailed there. The problem is that enemy single elements are not specified anywhere!  I mean, what happens when my single element is within 400 p of an enemy element? This case is not included, apparently. Enemy groups (other than the exceptions) stop marches, enemy single elements stop friendly groups not moving straight ahead. But what happens when single enemy elements are whitinh 400 p of my single element?

All opinions would be appreciated.

[foxgom]

Hi

P28 Para 1
"Tactical moves and march moves are... moves by an element or group....

i.e.
A single element can march.

neil

[landmeister]

Yes, I know elements can march. What I'm asking is if single enemy elements stop marches to my single elements. 

[toby]

Don't have my rules on me but I am fairly sure from the discussions we had in the final drafts that only groups can march within 400p of the enemy, and then only if they have only moved straight ahead, and the enemy are single elements or skirmishers etc etc etc.

So your single element can march, but only while it starts more than 400p from any enemy at all. Doesn't matter for single elements what sort of enemy they are, they can't march within 400 paces.

Groups on the other hand are large enough that if they see some enemy skirmishers or a vulnerable looking enemy group they can march right in to try and grab the initiative.

[landmeister]

Thank you Toby. This is how I read it, but I wanted to be sure. 

[lorenzomele]

There is one exception to be clarified here.
Single elements contigous to single elements do stop marches.
This rule is made to prevent a line of impetous troops gone spontaneous to be marched to contact and destroyed, because the -1 CF malus for marching to contact will be more than compensated by the double overlap enjoyed.
This is the reason for at pag 28 para 3 "single elements" are cited. They enjoy of a) exception.
Take note of this.

[landmeister]

Very interesting. Thank you vry much. 

[landmeister]

I'm sorry for retaking this old thread...again  . Tis is my final question, I promise.

What happens when I have an element or group defending TF and a single enemy element is less than 400p beyond? On page 28 is read that I can begin marches at less than 400p of enemy groups while defending TF. Should I understand I couldn't do it if the enemy is a single element? Logic would say clearly not, but maybe we found a rules gap here. 

Thank you very much in advance.

[LawrenceG]

I'm sorry for retaking this old thread...again  . Tis is my final question, I promise.

What happens when I have an element or group defending TF and a single enemy element is less than 400p beyond? On page 28 is read that I can begin marches at less than 400p of enemy groups while defending TF. Should I understand I couldn't do it if the enemy is a single element? Logic would say clearly not, but maybe we found a rules gap here. 

Thank you very much in advance.

There is no logic gap.

You cannot march if any enemy group is within 400;
Except, you can still march if there are enemy groups within 400 and they are beyond friendly fortifications.

Single elements are not groups, therefore it makes no difference where they are, they do not affect marching at any distance, with or without fortifications.