Author Topic: Bw (X) support  (Read 7932 times)

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landmeister

  • Guest
Bw (X) support
« on: November 18, 2010, 09:00:04 AM »
With the new 2.0 wording, single Bw (X) elements cannot benefit from rear support, even from other single Bw (S/O) elements. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance.

Platypus

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 09:40:14 AM »
Yes, that is correct.

But they couldn't in v1 either, nor in DBM.

Cheers,
JohnG

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 04:35:09 PM »
Oooops! I was sure they were... :o ;D

Thank you

Valentinian Victor

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 08:37:33 AM »
Be careful in this context about the meaning of 'rear support'. For example, was your question can they provide shooting support, or was it can they provide close combat support?

Platypus

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2010, 10:08:41 AM »
Val is right.

I put the question to the Yahoo list and the answer is;

1) In Distance Combat (Shooting) single based Bw(X) can "aid" another SB Bw(X) from behind.

2) But in Close Combat, they cannot provide support from behind.

The bit on the bottom of p7 about "rear support" is only about Close Combat. When elements shoot in support it is always called "aiding".

Hope this clears it up.

JohnG

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2010, 12:35:20 PM »
Be careful in this context about the meaning of 'rear support'. For example, was your question can they provide shooting support, or was it can they provide close combat support?

I meant both because I was sure there was no distinction.  :o :-\

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2010, 12:37:34 PM »
1) In Distance Combat (Shooting) single based Bw(X) can "aid" another SB Bw(X) from behind.

According to it, SB Bw (X) can give shooting rear support to ANY SB Bw. Right?

LawrenceG

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2010, 04:56:47 PM »
1) In Distance Combat (Shooting) single based Bw(X) can "aid" another SB Bw(X) from behind.

According to it, SB Bw (X) can give shooting rear support to ANY SB Bw. Right?

"rear support" is only for close combat.

Shooting from behind another shooter at the same target is called "aiding".

SB Bw(X) can aid from behind only the same kind (i.e. grade) of bow, i.e. Bw(X).
This is the same for all SB Bow, they can aid from behind only the same grade of bow as themselves.

DB Bw(X) can be aided from behind by the element it is double based with (which is always Bw(O) or (S))
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 03:12:43 PM by LawrenceG »

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2010, 08:48:16 PM »
Ok. Thank you.

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2011, 10:31:22 PM »
SB Bw(X) can aid from behind only the same kind (i.e. grade) of bow, i.e. Bw(X).
This is the same for all SB Bow, they can aid from behind only the same grade of bow as themselves.

DB Bw(X) can be aided from behind by the element it is double based with (which is always Bw(O) or (S))

Please, let me retake this topic again. What would happen with a non compulsory double base of Bw(X)? The front element would be aided by the second when shooting. But would the front one receive rear support in close combat? According to page 7:

They fight frontally and receive and inflict the outcomes in close combat of Spears (O) if regular and of Spears (I) if irregular. If double-based with Bows, these provide rear support.


So it seems so, but other opinions would be appreciated.

LAP1964

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 10:41:56 PM »

This is the same for all SB Bow, they can aid from behind only the same grade of bow as themselves.


As they also have to have the same weapon,would this stop a rank of BOWS getting aid from a rank of CROSSBOWS,or vice versa?
LES

LAP1964

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2011, 10:54:59 PM »


Please, let me retake this topic again. What would happen with a non compulsory double base of Bw(X)? The front element would be aided by the second when shooting. But would the front one receive rear support in close combat? According to page 7:


If you mean 2 Bw(X) elements double based this is not allowed.As they can only be double based with Bw(O) or (S),also on page 7.
LES  

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 08:06:02 AM »
As they also have to have the same weapon,would this stop a rank of BOWS getting aid from a rank of CROSSBOWS,or vice versa?

IMHO yes.

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2011, 08:12:10 AM »
If you mean 2 Bw(X) elements double based this is not allowed.As they can only be double based with Bw(O) or (S),also on page 7.

Ooops. You're right.  ;) Thank you.

LawrenceG

  • Guest
Re: Bw (X) support
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2011, 10:03:04 AM »
SB Bw(X) can aid from behind only the same kind (i.e. grade) of bow, i.e. Bw(X).
This is the same for all SB Bow, they can aid from behind only the same grade of bow as themselves.

DB Bw(X) can be aided from behind by the element it is double based with (which is always Bw(O) or (S))

Please, let me retake this topic again. What would happen with a non compulsory double base of Bw(X)? The front element would be aided by the second when shooting. But would the front one receive rear support in close combat? According to page 7:

They fight frontally and receive and inflict the outcomes in close combat of Spears (O) if regular and of Spears (I) if irregular. If double-based with Bows, these provide rear support.


So it seems so, but other opinions would be appreciated.

On page 13 it says "Other troops... of the same type can be double based for convenience... but do not receive special factors ..."

IIMO rear support for double-based Bw(X) is a "special factor" as it is restricted to double based troops.
Similarly, a rear element of Bw(S) or (O) could NOT aid the shooting of the front element (and this is explicitly restricted to "required to be double-based" on page 34). A rear rank of Bw(X) could shoot over a front rank of Bw(X) as they are the same grade (and assuming the same kind of bow) and would be able to shoot over them even if single based.

By "non-compulsory" I assume you mean "not described as double based in the army list book" as there are some non-compulsory troop types that are double based if you take them, and some troops have the option to be different types and/or grades, including both single and double based options. 

When (normally single based) troops are double-based "for convenience" and not because it is specified in the army list, then they fight exactly the same as single based.

As they also have to have the same weapon,would this stop a rank of BOWS getting aid from a rank of CROSSBOWS,or vice versa?

IMHO yes.

I agree it, does stop bows and crossbows supporting each other.