Book 4 errata

[Barritus]

Morean Byzantine (that well known killer list  ): If I take Ottoman allies, can I have the Serbian knights available in the Ottoman list? After all, the Serbs are listed as "if the Cin-C is the Sultan or the Grand Vizier", and there are options in the list which "need not be used in an ally contingent drawn from this list or if the C-in-C is not the Sultan or Grand Vizier". This leads me to assume that if you take an Ottoman ally contingent, it can be commanded by the Sultan or Grand Vizier if you so wish. And having so wished, that puts the Serbs on the table from 1390.

Order of St John: What can you include in your Navarrese Company ally command? The list says it "can include the Italian ally-general". If so, then obviously he's the command's general, seeing as a command can only have the one general. But what else? If I've got it right, the Navarrese command can include: 0-2 Navarrese Irr Kn (O), 2-14 Irr Ax (S), *0-4 Irr Bw (O), *0-4 Irr Ps (S), *1-3 Gascon Irr Kn (O), *1-3 Irr Sp (O), **1-2 Reg Kn (O), and **1-2 Reg Bw (O).

[LAP1964]

Morean Byzantine (that well known killer list  ): If I take Ottoman allies, can I have the Serbian knights available in the Ottoman list? After all, the Serbs are listed as "if the Cin-C is the Sultan or the Grand Vizier", and there are options in the list which "need not be used in an ally contingent drawn from this list or if the C-in-C is not the Sultan or Grand Vizier". This leads me to assume that if you take an Ottoman ally contingent, it can be commanded by the Sultan or Grand Vizier if you so wish. And having so wished, that puts the Serbs on the table from 1390.

Just 1 problem all Serbian Vlastela must be commanded by a Serbian SG . 

Order of St John: What can you include in your Navarrese Company ally command? The list says it "can include the Italian ally-general". If so, then obviously he's the command's general, seeing as a command can only have the one general. But what else? If I've got it right, the Navarrese command can include: 0-2 Navarrese Irr Kn (O), 2-14 Irr Ax (S), *0-4 Irr Bw (O), *0-4 Irr Ps (S), *1-3 Gascon Irr Kn (O), *1-3 Irr Sp (O), **1-2 Reg Kn (O), and **1-2 Reg Bw (O).

As the Italian AG can only command Italians ,so would the allied command be ,so its legal rule wise?   
1 Reg Kn (S)
2 Reg Kn(O)
2 Reg Bw (O)
LES

[Barritus]

Medieval French: The Jacquerie allies are listed as 5-8 Hd (S) which must be commanded by a Jacquerie ally general who can command no other troops. As a command must contain at least 4ME of troops, a Jacquerie command can legally never contain less than 8 Hd (S)...

[Orcoteuthis]

Medieval French: The Jacquerie allies are listed as 5-8 Hd (S) which must be commanded by a Jacquerie ally general who can command no other troops. As a command must contain at least 4ME of troops, a Jacquerie command can legally never contain less than 8 Hd (S)...

That's just an endearing quirk.

The actual problem is in DBMM 200, where the Jacquerie are reduced to 3-4, but you still need eight to fulfill the ME requirement.

[LAP1964]

The actual problem is in DBMM 200, where the Jacquerie are reduced to 3-4, but you still need eight to fulfill the ME requirement.

There are a few lists like that ,that end up illegal commands because of the reduced number of elements .
LES   

[Barritus]

Early Crusader: Why is it that the Kn (O) can't dismount in 1097, as some of them did at the Battle of Dorylaeum? I'm pretty sure that was in the old DBM list book.

[Barritus]

Later Crusaders: This list can be used to provide an ally contingent to other lists, especially the Syrian list, and this offers some oddities.

1. Before 1188, the True Cross Bge (S) is listed as "0 or 1", rather than "0-1". By my understanding that allows it to be selected in an allied contingent. However it seems odd that such a talisman would be handed out to troops fighting with a Syrian army.

2. The downgrade for Guy de Lusignan's Inertness is compulsory from 1187 to 1190, meaning an allied contingent provided in those years could be similarly commanded. The idea of 8 Irr Kn (O) led by an Inert Irr Kn (O) ally general appeals to my sense of whimsy, as it's probably not what an opponent would expect to face in a Syrian army, and if loyal the knights would almost certainly go impetuous.

3. The upgrade for Richard I's Brilliance is another of those "available optional" troop types like the True Cross above. Once again it seems odd that a Syrian army dated 1191 to 1192 could have a Brilliant Crusader Ally general.

[Orcoteuthis]

In 4/14, one of the things Jurchen cavalry can be is Reg Cv (I) @5AP. That should be @6AP.

[Orcoteuthis]

As discussed on the Yahoo list, French Brigans in the Armagnac version of 4/74 ought be Bd (I) [rather than Sp (O)] as in French armies of that date.

[Orcoteuthis]

In IV/76 Early Burgundian, Charles the Bold probably oughtn't be compulsory from 1467. He didn't command all Burgundian forces personally, and he's optional in the following Burgundian Ordonnance list.

[Barritus]

Nikaian Byzantine: The list itself provides that after 1242 you can have 0 or 13-36 Cuman allies. But the list notes say that Cuman allies are compulsory after 1242.

Which is correct? The list or the notes?

[LAP1964]

Do you think after 1242 AD in the list could be wrong ? As then 0 or 13-36 would make sense,as you would have the choice wheather or not to take them before 1242 AD ? 
LES

[Barritus]

Do you think after 1242 AD in the list could be wrong ? As then 0 or 13-36 would make sense,as you would have the choice wheather or not to take them before 1242 AD ? 
LES

Good thought.

I'm hoping the people who update the official list errata check this site regularly.

[Orcoteuthis]

Checking an ancient DBM version of the list, I suspect the list note is a fossil - in the Chalcolithic, the list entry simply specified 13-26 Cuman elements, with no zero option.

[Barritus]

List 18, Lithuanian and Samogitian: Lithuanian armies after 1360 can field Russian allies, including an ally general (commanding all and only Russians, 0 or 6-12 cavalry, 0-4 Irr Bw (I) and 0-2 Irr Sp (I). How can the cavalry be optional? If you don't take them the command will be illegally small (less than 4ME in addition to the general).

List 17, Later Crusader: How do you calculate Syrian allies for this list? In particular, how are Turkomans managed? The Syrian list provides Turkoman ally-generals which must command all and only Turkomans. But as the Turkoman ally-generals are optional, I assume that means the Turkomans can be fielded in a Syrian army under Syrian generals, which means in turn that they're automatically included in a Syrian allied contingent. (Just thinking out loud about a Later Crusader army of 1187 under Guy de Lusignan...)