Author Topic: Viking allies  (Read 1894 times)

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Jack M Startin

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Viking allies
« on: November 26, 2013, 04:44:05 PM »
Hi,
Had a look for answers to this question but only found what I felt were partial answers.  However, apologies if it has already been covered [point me in the right direction please].

The notes at the end of the list say that the general in a Viking ally taken from the list should be " .... graded as a sub-general ....". I was wondering what that actually meant, and the implications.  The only use of the word 'graded' in the rules that I could find applies to troops being (S), (O), F) etc.   So, that didn't help.

For a Viking ally, allied to an army from a different list, which of these is correct [or at least generally accepted]:

a) The Viking ally general is costed/paid for as a sub-general?
b) his baggage can be part of the army baggage of the main army?;
c) he can have in his command troops from the list of his 'employer'?
d) he is just an ally general, like any other Irregular ally general, but one who never changes sides under any circumstances?

Many thanks.


Orcoteuthis

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Re: Viking allies
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 06:40:14 PM »
They Norse-Irish list says that Viking allies are commanded by subgenerals, which ought confirm (a) and (b) as correct at least as far as Viking allies in that list are concerned. But it's still an allied contingent so must be assumed to follow the usual composition rules for such, except the explicit exception of the general's type. There's no similar exception allowing him to command troops from the main list. (Do note that there are such exceptions about what ally-generals can command in certain other lists.)

mickhession

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Re: Viking allies
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 07:52:27 PM »
I believe a), b) and d) are correct. He is an ally general who can never be unreliable, hence can contribute to army baggage. He costs 10AP not 5, and chooses troops from the Viking list subject to the usual restrictions. He cannot command troops from his employer's list.

That said, I believe it is a dumb idea. Phil says there's no instance of an unreliable Norse ally anywhere, but there is one in Orkneyinga saga. Equally, lots of lists get allied contingents based on a single actual instance. Despite 100% historical loyalty they have a chance of unreliability.

Cheers
Mick

Doug M.

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Re: Viking allies
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 02:41:12 AM »
Agreed Mick, consistency is the bugbear of tiny minds, but this one is pretty basic. One of the challenges is that as the lists were drawn up by a number of people, it would have been a monumental work to parse them all for consistency of labelling, approach and degree of 'flexibility'.

toby

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Re: Viking allies
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2013, 10:03:53 AM »
Agree with Mick, although its mainly from common sense and custom.  You could try and argue that they should be able to command any troops like a normal sub-general, but then you could also argue that as sub-generals they shouldn't get access to their original list or something.  Needs to be tidied up if/when Book 3 is re-done, or possibly re-examined - I think it is probably based on rather too many historical romances or Hollywood films rather than actual records.