Author Topic: Dummy general dice???  (Read 1487 times)

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flynnkd

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Dummy general dice???
« on: March 04, 2019, 03:48:36 AM »
What on earth is the extra 4th dice ( a dummy dice) for? What if I had 4 commands, do I get a 5th dice? Can someone explain what it means for me, pls.

Barritus

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Re: Dummy general dice???
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 02:00:04 PM »
G'day flynnkd

There are a couple of reasons for the dummy PIP dice (and if you have four commands, no you don't get a 5th PIP dice).

First, depending on what other stratagems you might use, it allows you to deceive your opponent about whether you actually have a fourth command.

Second, it ensures (at least for a while) that weather effects occur equally for both players.

And now to expand on these a little...

First, imagine your opponent deploys two commands on table, and there are clearly less than 400AP (or whatever) of visible troops. When he rolls four PIP dice, you don't know whether he has a double flank march, or a single flank march plus a dummy PIP dice, or (confusingly) only two commands with a lot of troops hidden somewhere on the table and two dummy PIP dice. This makes it harder for you to deploy troops to pre-empt what you think he's done.

For example, I had a game where I used Early Crusaders against Fatimids. I deployed two commands on table - a very large Crusader command under the C-in-C, and a Byzantine ally. I fortified my baggage and used the Delay Battle stratagem to improve my chances of any flank marches coming on. My opponent, on counting the points of my on table troops, could easily assume I had only a single flank march of modest size. In fact I used the Exaggerated Numbers stratagem to make the C-in-C's command look big, and had two modest-sized flank marching commands. (The story of the game is on the forum here somewhere - entertaining reading if you're not the Crusader player, as everything went wrong...)

Back in the days of DBM, you only rolled as many PIP dice as you had commands. This usually meant you knew whether your opponent was flank marching (or at least, it was a lot harder to mislead opponents than it is in DBMM). And in cases where the terrain made a flank march on one flank impractical, it allowed the opposing player to set up a response to the flank march well before it arrived. This was unrealistic and gamey.

Second, there are a variety of weather effects (for examples, wind direction, rain starting and stopping) which occur when your - or your opponent's - PIP dice average more or less than a certain amount. Those PIP dice averages are more likely to occur the fewer dice you roll. So if you roll fewer PIP dice than your opponent, this leads to the odd situation where those weather effects are more likely to occur in your bound than in your opponent's bound.

So making both players roll four PIP dice at the start of the game means that, at least for the first part of the game, weather effects which can occur in either player's bound will have an equal likelihood of occurring in your bound and your opponent's bound.

Does this help?

flynnkd

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Re: Dummy general dice???
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 12:31:19 AM »
It does help, thanks.  If you are averaging regular generals dice does the dummy dice get used in the calculation (imagine it must or it becomes obvious it is a dummy). And likewise is it a real dice you can allocate to a general... how do you tell the dummy from a real one... and if you do doesnt that tell the opponent?

LawrenceG1

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Re: Dummy general dice???
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 08:58:05 PM »
The dummy dice is always a different colour from the real dice. It does not participate in averaging or low-middle-high assignment. This means it behaves the same as the dice of a command that is concealed, in ambush, delayed, or flank marching. You will know which dice is the dummy because of the colour, but your opponent won't know if it is a dummy or a real command that he can't see.

Neil Williamson

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Re: Dummy general dice???
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2019, 10:53:09 PM »
As a further question
Say you have a complete command in an ambush. You roll your "dummy" dice and get a 6. You don't want to reveal your ambush at this time.
Do you have to reveal that there is an ambush but not reveal its location or are there some other options?

LawrenceG1

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Re: Dummy general dice???
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2019, 04:00:09 PM »
No, you don't have to tell him anything.

If he asks, you should confirm that it does not signify a flank march is arriving next turn (nor delayed command this turn).

It's up to him to make whatever deductions he can from the fact that you haven't discarded the dice, if he notices. 


Neil Williamson

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Re: Dummy general dice???
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2019, 04:14:15 AM »
OK thanks
I guess I was assuming that my opponent would be observant!

LawrenceG1

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Re: Dummy general dice???
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2019, 01:30:33 PM »
There are situations when the dice will give away your cunning plan (or lack of one). You just have to accept this as one of the risks of the game. When your opponent comes to a conclusion about the significance of dice rolls, or anything else, you can always use the catchphrase "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment".