Threat Zone Question - how far exactly?

[andrew]

Hi

Exactly how far does the threat zone extend?  I'm sick of getting into debates over this and would like some clarification.

The "threat zone" rules on page 32 state : "The space immediately..is called the threat zone.  It extends 80 paces directly forward of the...front edge."

Note also figure 10a on page 55.  The 3 pikemen labelled A, B and C are caught in the threat zone of Blade X.  Now what if there is a pikeman D lined up behind pikeman C?  Is he caught in the threat zone?  Some argue his front edge is at 80 paces.

The same situation would apply if a line of LH were contacted in the flank, is the LH on the other side of the LH that was contacted on the flank caught in the TZ?

Some seem to think so because in both cases the element in question is "at" 80 paces and the edges occupy the same space on the table.  Personally I think this is a physical and theoretical impossibility for two different elements to occupy the same space at the same time.  In both cases I think the 80 paces is "consumed" or "used up" such that a pikemen D is not in the TZ.  Similarly, I don't think the next LH is in the TZ either (i.e. the next one over from the one contacted in the flank).

Does anyone have any opinions or an official clarification?

Thanks in advance
Andrew

[DaveMather]

Does anyone have any opinions or an official clarification?

Thanks in advance
Andrew

Try the clarification section of the main site http://dbmm.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=42

Regards


David Mather

[toby]

This is a subtle distinction.

If you move up to 80 paces you have reached the TZ, and are constrained by it.

Beyond there you have entered the TZ, and are constrained by it.

If you start your move withing 80 paces you are starting in it, and are constrained by it.

If you start your move at 80 paces you are at the edge of the TZ, but are not TZ'ed - you have not reached, entered or started in it.

[Correction - this was the situation in DBMM v1. In DBMM v2 you are in the threat zone if you are at 80 paces]

[andrew]

If you start you move at 80 paces you are at the edge of the TZ, but are not TZ'ed - you have not reached, entered or started in it.

Thanks for responding guys.  I'm not sure how I missed that clarification.....

So if I am interpreting this last sentence correctly (which seems to be the relative section), the theoretical 4th pikeman 'D' (per diagram 10a) does not start his move in a TZ (assuming no other elements come into play).  Is that correct?

And per my other example of a LH whose mate has been contacted in the flank, is he also not constrained by the TZ?  If I try to draw a diagram, will LH2 be constrained by the TZ of Cv1 if he tries to move forward?  Similarly will he be constrained by the TZ of Cv3 if he tries to move backwards?  And if I am reading your interpretation correctly, then the Cv2 TZ currently has no effect on LH2.

Thanks
Andrew

[Platypus]

I agree that LH2 is not in the TZ of Cv 2.

Given that he base of LH 1 is (theoretically, and not withstanding the Gods of Chaos and Base Cutting) 80p wide, then the base of LH 2 must be >80p away from Cv 2.

G^is,
JohnG

[andrew]

Hi

That is also my interpretation but I consistently come up against players who believe LH2 is at 80 paces and therefore caught in the TZ.  I can't see how it can be at 80 paces if the LH1 base width was 80 paces.  I reckon LH2 is at 80 paces + 1 micron.

Andrew

[andrew]

Thinking about this and the wording in the clarification, LH2 is not caught in the TZ of Cv2 but should LH2 move forward then it will have reached the TZ of Cv1 and will be constrained by it.  Is that correct?

Andrew

[landmeister]

Correct

[toby]

Absolutely correct. Well done - you've got it.

[Jagiello]

If that is the case then, if an element could move straight forward <=80p and make edge to edge or edge to corner or corner to edge contact with an enemy base, then that enemy base is ZoC'd. If there is an intervening enemy element, then the ZoC does not affect enemy beyond the first if it is exactly 80p distant.

What strikes me (and a few fellow gamers) as strangely unrealistic is that as the description of the design concept of a ZoC is that an enemy would feel threatened by a hypothetical charge, then how could Pike B feel threatened as Blade X has to get through Pike A in order to attack it. Pike C (and D if present) would be putting the kettle on, not pooping themselves.!

J

[MikeCampbell]

Because if they'er that close in real life then they'er probably all part of the same deep formation.

Base depths in DB* are much much deeper than is requierd for the troops - all 16 ranks of a classical pike formation would fit into a single infantry base depth.

But we put them on deep bases that extends the depth of 16 ranks of pikes to 100 paces, which is unrealistic.

[Jagiello]

I am now kicking myself for not considering that one.
I had heard it mentioned before.
Apologies
Cheers
J

[toby]

To amend this for DBMM v2 - elements exactly at 80 paces are now in the threat zone.

[landmeister]

Just a clarification. Are all limits applicable? I mean, is an enemy element in front corner to front corner contact (not its front) in TZ?

Thank you in advance

[Orcoteuthis]

For the game to play sensibly, you have to assume that the lateral edges, incl the front corners, of the TZ are not actually in it.

(If they're in it, an element which has destroyed it frontal opponent would still be ZOC'd by its wingmates.)