Ok. Let's make it easier

[landmeister]

Well, well, well...

I see no one dares to talk about my QRS for moving into close combat, so I will make it easier. 
These are the "difficult" points I would like to clarify. Please, just confirm (or not) the following.

A contacted enemy element can (I can choose) be lined up to my moving element (front edge contact) in the following circunstances only:
  a) My single element contacts the flank/rear edge of a single enemy element not in CC.
  b) My single element contacts the flank/rear edge of an enemy column/group not in CC (and so breaking it).
  c) My group contacts the flank/rear edge of single enemy element not in CC.
  d) My group contacts the flank/rear edge of an enemy column/group not in CC (and so breaking it).

In all other circumstances, lining up is specified (so choosing isn't possible) or forbidden (e.g. a single element contacting an enemy corner only).

Additionally, according to the Commentary, an enemy element contacted in a corner (and chossing not to remain stationary) must be moved into flank contact with the free 80 p move and then is turned to fight, even if it was a front corner to front corner contact only. One restriction is not mentioned in the Commentary:

1. This is possible if the enemy element was contacted by a group moving straight ahead only.

One the other hand, it is initially illegal because a corner does not belong to an edge (Phil dixit). So a corner to corner contact is not specifically permitted, only a front edge can contact an enemy front/rear, flank/corner. Why is it included in the Commentary? What am I missing?

Well... Easy enough now? 

[LawrenceG]

Please, just confirm (or not) the following.

A contacted enemy element can (I can choose) be lined up to my moving element (front edge contact) in the following circunstances only:
  a) My single element contacts the flank/rear edge of a single enemy element not in CC.
  b) My single element contacts the flank/rear edge of an enemy column/group not in CC (and so breaking it).
  c) My group contacts the flank/rear edge of single enemy element not in CC.
  d) My group contacts the flank/rear edge of an enemy column/group not in CC (and so breaking it).

My understanding is that in these cases you must end your move (including any 80p extra) lined up in one of the specified ways. You cannot choose to end your move not lined up and then force the opponent to move to line up. The only times you can force an enemy to line up are when you contact the enemy's front edge, or a single element's corner contacted by your group. Othewise you can only force blocking enemy to move out of the way, so you can line up.

In all other circumstances, lining up is specified (so choosing isn't possible) or forbidden (e.g. a single element contacting an enemy corner only).

Additionally, according to the Commentary, an enemy element contacted in a corner (and chossing not to remain stationary) must be moved into flank contact with the free 80 p move and then is turned to fight, even if it was a front corner to front corner contact only.

One restriction is not mentioned in the Commentary:

1. This is possible if the enemy element was contacted by a group moving straight ahead only.

Contacted on a Rear Corner
Elements contacted on a rear corner either turn to contact the contacting element with their flank edge
using the 80 pace free move, and then automatically turn from flank to frontal contact as normal (p. 35,
Turning to Face, paragraph 1), or, if part of a group and choosing not to conform, fight counting as once
overlapped and unable to recoil.

The bit you are referring to is only for elements legally contacted on a rear corner, i.e. in the way you specified as a restriction. I suggest that the commentary doesn't mention it because it assumes you have already completed your move within the applicable restriction, which itself is clear in the rules.

One the other hand, it is initially illegal because a corner does not belong to an edge (Phil dixit). So a corner to corner contact is not specifically permitted, only a front edge can contact an enemy front/rear, flank/corner. Why is it included in the Commentary? What am I missing?

Edges and Corners
A corner is not part of an edge.
However, "EXTRA MOVEMENT TO LINE UP..." merely specifies "contacting or contacted".
Moving a corner into contact with a corner is "contacting", so extra move can be used to line up.

If you contact a corner illegally, you must use your 80p free move to convert it into a legal contact. The legal contact could be on any edge you can legally end in contact with. That is what this part of the commentary is talking about.

[landmeister]

My understanding is that in these cases you must end your move (including any 80p extra) lined up in one of the specified ways. You cannot choose to end your move not lined up and then force the opponent to move to line up. The only times you can force an enemy to line up are when you contact the enemy's front edge, or a single element's corner contacted by your group. Othewise you can only force blocking enemy to move out of the way, so you can line up.

Finally! Someone answered!  Thank you very much.

This was my initial understanding too but all of it collapsed when my opponent contacted the rear edge on my rightmost element of my group with his single element's front. He argued that his front edge had contacted my rear, so he chose to line up my element to his (it was his bound). I told him it was illegal but he defied me to demonstrate it...and I couldn't!  Did I miss something? Moving into close combat front edge to front edge is clearly defined case by case, but contacting flanks ans corners is another matter. The rules specify how the move must end, but not who must line up, so you can read it as you can choose.  .

If you contact a corner illegally, you must use your 80p free move to convert it into a legal contact. The legal contact could be on any edge you can legally end in contact with. That is what this part of the commentary is talking about.

Ok. And can you choose again? An example. I have a four elements group facing up moving straight ahead until my lefmost front corner contacts le lefmost corne of an emey group facing down. This is an illegal contact, so I must make it legal. I can't contact it's flank because I should move more than 80 p, so the only possible move is front edge to front edge. But my front has not contacted anything so I can't claim that the only possible move is my group lining up ith his. I could choose his group be lined up to mine and no one would be able to argue against! 

Once again, thank you.

[LawrenceG]

When it says "must end" then it must be referring to the move made by the player  initiating the close combat.

If you stop not lined up and force the enemy to line up, then at the end of your move (before the enemy's lining up move) you are not lined up. Therefore you do not fulfil the "must end..." citerion.

Hence you can only force the enemy to conform in the few cases where this is explicit.

[MikeCampbell]

surely top of page 33 applies - the enemy elements (ie the stationary ones this turn)  are only ever moved if you are not able to line up due to blocking elements, or as listed as exeptions under front edge contact, and for corner contact.

In every other case the moving element has to line up.

So if there is no blocking element the moving element has to line up.

And I'm afraid I still don't actually understand your original post!!

[landmeister]

When it says "must end" then it must be referring to the move made by the player  initiating the close combat.

If you stop not lined up and force the enemy to line up, then at the end of your move (before the enemy's lining up move) you are not lined up. Therefore you do not fulfil the "must end..." citerion.

Hence you can only force the enemy to conform in the few cases where this is explicit.

Hmmm...Very interesting. I Think this is what I was looking for. Thank you.

[landmeister]

surely top of page 33 applies - the enemy elements (ie the stationary ones this turn)  are only ever moved if you are not able to line up due to blocking elements, or as listed as exeptions under front edge contact, and for corner contact.

In every other case the moving element has to line up.

So if there is no blocking element the moving element has to line up.

And I'm afraid I still don't actually understand your original post!!

I'm sorry Mike. I'm afraid I'm a victim of the DBMM paranoia!  Every time I play a game I can't be 100% sure I'm doing it right. I know this is a basic feature of the game, but this permanent state of doubt is making me feel unsure until these little details  .

Thank you for your clarification. 

[MikeCampbell]

You don't have to be 100% right - you just have to get your opponent to accept that you are!!

Honestly - every game I miss something completely or get something wrong - I hadn't even noticed the bit about fleeign troops that cant' recoil are killed and it's pretty obvious when you look at it!!

As long as you get the basics right the fiddly little bits are either unimportant, unlikely to occur or someone will point them out when you do get them wrong (and if they don't then they're probably doign it wrong too!!).  The trick is in being gracious when you find you're wrong!

[landmeister]

You don't have to be 100% right - you just have to get your opponent to accept that you are!!

LOL  Excellent!  Ok. I'll try it!

Just a final note. Why didn't Phil simply put "You move, you always line up except in these front contact exceptions"?. Don't worry, it was a rethorical question  .

The final note, I promise. What's the logic behind a group lining up the flank/rear of a single element? It's just a single element after all! You're bigger, you're a group! 

Thank you.

[MikeCampbell]

they do conform - they face

I think it's part of the general de-emphasis on flanking attacks - in DBM flank attacks were easy - groups always made single elements conform, etc.

Well all that has gone, along with easy manouvre & multiple ranks being killed.

this all makes frontal attack the simplest option unless you do some really good manouvre. 

Flank attacks can still be deadly.....but you have to work on them whereas before they were very simple to do.

[landmeister]

I see. Thank you very much.