Book 1 relative Troop Strengths

[Mithridates]

Having just read Philip Matyszak's book on Mithridates the Great my question is about relative troop strengths.   Given that a close order element is say 256 real pikemen I am a little perplexed about the low numbers that List 48 actually allows.   Same follows for some other lists.

8 elements of brazen shields equates to some 2,000 phalangites.  Now I know that the Pontic armies ultimately failed against their Roman foes but the pikes did hold them and on a few occasions even defeated them.   Looking at the later period 20 elements of imitation legionaries equates to say 5,000 Bd (I).   Clearly an army has to have a mix of historical troop types but both these figures seem on the low side given the battle descriptions and the kingdom's resources.

Looking at relativities, a Marian Roman army can field upto 48 Ordinary Bd and 24 Inferior.   

While we do not have to believe Roman historians they all state very large strengths for the Pontics - not all of whom were phalangites of course.

The Seleucids (List 19) at Magnesia fielded 16,000 phalangites but can only field 6,000 (24 Pk ordinary) plus 3,000 Argyaspides (12 Pk superior).   If we look at Alexander (List 12) he can field 48 pikes (12,000) and 12 hypaspists (3,000).  So, in this case, the numbers equate to what we know of maximum strengths.   

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Grateful advice please

Garry

[MikeCampbell]

The lists are designed to be proportional rather than absolute - how many othe troops weer there in those armies, and how would they pan out in a 300, 400 or 500 pt DBMM "points" army proportinally?

by hte same token there are armies where they probably never managed toget together the number of people in one place represented by a "typical" DBMM army.

the lists are designed to allow games and enforce historical proportions for a-historical games.

You don't use army list numbers when doing refights, so they are unimportant for those.

[Mithridates]

Thanks Mike I was aware of the basis for the lists.   

If we are talking historical games then sorry but the relative difference between effectives in Pontic and Roman armies becomes even more glaring.   

Shame that none of the major battle accounts I have seen (other than one on the Fanaticus site) give relative proportions for the Pontic array.

[Mithridates]

Just checked Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome.   That does help with troop proportions.  Early on, 15,000 Pontic phalangites (out of say 100,000 effective troops including lights); initially 6,000 imitation legionaries then later 36,000 legionaries and peltast types. 

Interestingly the list in Bk 1 has the later army based around 36,000 infantry trained as legionaries.