Version 2

[Jack M Startin]

Hi,

Just recieved a copy of DBMM v.2.  I have a question.  But first I have to say I really like the cover - regal looking & colourful but without being gaudy.  Very tasteful.

Anyway my question.

1) I'm afraid it's about Cm(X) again [sorry - but I've got a Chinese Southern Dynasty army which includes Bamboo-and-Paper Lions].  The description for them is a little clearer than in v.1.  They are treated as Bge(I) (but can contact mounted) & for 'Resolving Combat' as WWg(I).  However it doesn't say anything about how they are treated when looking at 'Combat Outcome'.

Rightly or wrongly I've taken 'Combat Outcome' to be not the same as 'Resolving Combat'.  So, I originally thought the outcome would be that for WWg(I) or perhaps as for Baggage(I) but then noticed that there is mention of Cm(X) under the outcome Elephants.  So then started to wonder if the Combat Outcome should be as for Camelry.  After all that's the heading they are described under on pg 6 - why do that if nothing to do with camelry applied.

And I'm afraid that's as far as this simpleton got!  I'd be interested in thoughts of others.

Cheers,
Jack

[Orcoteuthis]

They suffer and inflict combat outcomes as WWg (I) when fighting mounted (except, obviously, that they QK elephants).

Source: Comments by Phil on the DBMMlist.


I tangentially note that Phil's said that the "counts as Bge (I)" bit means they're on Bge size bases, whereas the basing table would leave you thinking they're on the same size bases as other camelry. Not that I can imagine anyone minding much which base depth you use for them.

[Jack M Startin]

Hi,
Thanks for that.  Inflicting & suffering combat outcomes as WWg(I) I think makes them far tougher than v.1 & also if Baggage & possibly even Camels.

Although if they can scare Elephants to death [i.e. QK] then isn't it logical that they would have a similar, but lesser effect, on Kn & Cv, i.e. an outcome as for Camelry?  And LH?

I wonder why they are listed under Camelry if none of it really applies now.  Perhaps it would have been better if they had ebbn listed under WWg(I), mention of basing as Baggage, & the QK note in the combat outcome for Elephants adjusted accordingly.

Thanks for the note about basing - unfortunately I've based mine as Cm. 

Incidently I took the 'treated as Baggage' to mean that they move & manoeuvre as Baggage.  Have I got that right?

Thanks again.

[Jack M Startin]

Oh!  Another thing [sorry]. 

You say inflict & suffer combat outcomes as WWg(I) when fighting mounted.  What about against anything else? 

OK they can't initiate contact against anything except mounted but other things could attack them.

Cheers
Jack

[Orcoteuthis]

Although if they can scare Elephants to death [i.e. QK] then isn't it logical that they would have a similar, but lesser effect, on Kn & Cv, i.e. an outcome as for Camelry?  And LH?

They have the same effect on Kn and Cv as do Bge (F) camels, which is probably a fairer comparator.

I wonder why they are listed under Camelry if none of it really applies now.

Mostly inertia, I think.

Incidently I took the 'treated as Baggage' to mean that they move & manoeuvre as Baggage.  Have I got that right?

Yes.

Oh!  Another thing [sorry]. 

You say inflict & suffer combat outcomes as WWg(I) when fighting mounted.  What about against anything else? 

Against anything else they fight as Bge (I), which means they're pretty much dead if hit by foot (CF 2, QK'd by everything, dies on equal).

[Jack M Startin]

Oh!  As Bge(I) vs anything but mounted.   Hmmm ..... not as tough as I'd first thought!

I still like my Paper Lions though - must get round to putting a pic or 2 on this site - after I've re-based them first!   

Thanks for you help.