Author Topic: Let's begin!. Sponnos.  (Read 5314 times)

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landmeister

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Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« on: July 19, 2010, 07:38:35 PM »
Dear all,

I've finally read the new 2.0 and I begin with my questions.

Now sponnos can't contact enemy flanks, jut overlap them. I find it simply silly, but this is not the question. What I would like to know is an apparent mistake at Figure 5c. There you can read that A can contact Y's flank. Why this contradiction? ???
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 07:41:37 PM by landmeister »

LAP1964

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Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 09:29:06 AM »
Because Y is directly in front of A.Take a look at 5aA and 5aD on P.49.Also read the paragraph below 5c
LES :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 09:31:08 AM by LAP1964 »

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 12:46:49 PM »
Ok. Once again I read it too quickly  ::) Something that never must be done when reading Barkerese.  ;D

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 03:04:44 PM »
Another one. Last bullet in spontanoeus advace paragraph. A distinction is made when defining the moment in which a sponno stops:

a) When contact with friend/enemy is made WITHOUT pivoting.
b) As a) but pivonting!!!  :o

Sorry, but why this? Is they they to say that I can choose to stop my sponno with or without pivoting at wish?  ???

Thank you.

LawrenceG

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 06:26:03 AM »
Another one. Last bullet in spontanoeus advace paragraph. A distinction is made when defining the moment in which a sponno stops:

a) When contact with friend/enemy is made WITHOUT pivoting.
b) As a) but pivonting!!!  :o

Sorry, but why this? Is they they to say that I can choose to stop my sponno with or without pivoting at wish?  ???

Thank you.

When you contact friends, normally you must pivot (compulsory).

Case (b) means you stop after you pivot.

Sometimes you do not pivot, for example, if the angle is more than 90 degrees, or if you are already parallel. As there is no pivot in these situations, case (b) does not apply. However, case (a) applies so the move ends.

Case (a) does not give you the option to end before a compulsory pivot. It makes it compulsory to end  in situations where there is no compulsory pivot.


An alternative wording combining a and b would be something like:

"Ends its move when it contacts friends it cannot pass through (after pivoting if this is required)."


landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 07:43:23 AM »
I see. Thank you very much Larry.  ;)

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2010, 08:12:34 AM »
And here I have a new one.

If I understand it correctly, now a sponno who has an enemy in reach in front of ot must contact it. According to my reading, it must do it even if it is overlapping right now. Is it correct? So now impetuous overlappers prefer fighting on their own than helping friends...A bit weird.  ???

foxgom

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 05:18:00 PM »
hi

P30

12th "." from the top of the page.

"They are overlapping an enemy element and choose not to move."


An element can choose not to sponno advance and instead to remain in overlap.


neil



landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 06:21:22 PM »
Ooops! You're right.  ;D

Thank you

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 11:19:21 AM »
Just a final confirmation, please. According to figure 5a, when enemy elements A and B aren't present, element C is the following priority. As per page 30, if a spontaneous mover that...

(a) would neither contact an enemy element any part of which is directly in front nor end closer to the previously closest visible enemy... blah, blah, blah

I understand that the sponnos move towards C because the will end further, not closer, to E as its previously closest visible enemy. Right?
Taking this same figure, what would happen if elements A, B and E weren't there and all other remain as depicted? Could Warband X contact C? I think it couldn't because it can end closer to C, its current previously visible enemy, moving straight ahead. Opinions?

Thank you in advance

Barritus

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2010, 02:46:45 PM »
Just a final confirmation, please. According to figure 5a, when enemy elements A and B aren't present, element C is the following priority. As per page 30, if a spontaneous mover that...

(a) would neither contact an enemy element any part of which is directly in front nor end closer to the previously closest visible enemy... blah, blah, blah

I understand that the sponnos move towards C because the will end further, not closer, to E as its previously closest visible enemy. Right?
Not quite, I don't think.

Or, more precisely, I think you're tying together two parts of the rule which should instead be applied separately.

Warband X doesn't head for Bow C because this move will end further from Bow E than it started.

Firstly, the default move for sponno troops is straight ahead. However, if this move either won't contact enemy or if it means Warband X ends the move further from Bow E than it was at the start of the move, you may choose to activate one of the dot point options.

One of the dot point options is to "...change direction by the least angle..." to contact enemy. The target element which fulfils this condition is Bow C.

Quote
Taking this same figure, what would happen if elements A, B and E weren't there and all other remain as depicted? Could Warband X contact C? I think it couldn't because it can end closer to C, its current previously visible enemy, moving straight ahead. Opinions?
No, I think you're wrong again, for essentially the same reason.

Option 1: go straight ahead, and Warband X contacts nothing. This activates the dot point options.
Option 2: change direction by the least angle and contact enemy. In the example you describe, it would be Bow C.

foxgom

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2010, 03:15:52 PM »
Hi

changing direction by the least angle is more important than moving less distance.

"change direction by the least angle and then move the least distance to...conatct...enemy"


Therefore C is a more important target than E, even though E is closer.

neil

LawrenceG

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 09:19:33 AM »
Just a final confirmation, please. According to figure 5a, when enemy elements A and B aren't present, element C is the following priority. As per page 30, if a spontaneous mover that...

(a) would neither contact an enemy element any part of which is directly in front nor end closer to the previously closest visible enemy... blah, blah, blah

I understand that the sponnos move towards C because the will end further, not closer, to E as its previously closest visible enemy. Right?
Taking this same figure, what would happen if elements A, B and E weren't there and all other remain as depicted? Could Warband X contact C? I think it couldn't because it can end closer to C, its current previously visible enemy, moving straight ahead. Opinions?

Thank you in advance

I don't have the diagram,  but the wording you quote implies that in general if a straight ahead move ends closer to the initially closest enemy then you must move straight ahead. You cannot use the bullets to contact that enemy. So sometimes you are forced to bypass the nearest enemy instead of attack it. This was pointed out in play testing, but Phil didn't change it so I assume it is a result that he wants.

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 11:58:40 AM »
Warband X doesn't head for Bow C because this move will end further from Bow E than it started.

Firstly, the default move for sponno troops is straight ahead. However, if this move either won't contact enemy or if it means Warband X ends the move further from Bow E than it was at the start of the move, you may choose to activate one of the dot point options.

Interesting. I think I agree I was not looking at it from the right angle.

No, I think you're wrong again, for essentially the same reason.

Option 1: go straight ahead, and Warband X contacts nothing. This activates the dot point options.
Option 2: change direction by the least angle and contact enemy. In the example you describe, it would be Bow C.

But in this case Warband X DOES END closer to C if moving straight ahead. Why dot points are applicable now?  ???

landmeister

  • Guest
Re: Let's begin!. Sponnos.
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 12:07:20 PM »
I don't have the diagram,  but the wording you quote implies that in general if a straight ahead move ends closer to the initially closest enemy then you must move straight ahead. You cannot use the bullets to contact that enemy. So sometimes you are forced to bypass the nearest enemy instead of attack it. This was pointed out in play testing, but Phil didn't change it so I assume it is a result that he wants.

This is how I understand it. Thank you.