Author Topic: Sub-Roman British - replace or upgrade the pedyt  (Read 2360 times)

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Barritus

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Sub-Roman British - replace or upgrade the pedyt
« on: September 04, 2012, 02:23:14 AM »
A colleague pointed out these issues, and I'd be interested to hear what people have to say.

1. Only in Britain before 429AD: These options together seem to require replacing all Companions with Reg Cv (I), even though the ally generals commanding them remain Irr Bd (O), which seems odd. Should this upgrade be limited to the C-in-C?

The pedyt are to be "replaced" with Reg Bd (I) and Reg Ax (O). Does this mean no Irr Sp (I) pedyt are to be used in the army? The usual use of the word "replace" in the list books is that none of the replaced troops are used, unless specified (see, for example, the replacement of Patzinak mercenaries by Skythikon in the Book 4 Komnenan Byzantine list).

Are each of the British ally generals required to have at least a quarter of the minimum number of Bd (I) and Ax (O)?

2. Only in Britain before 429AD andOnly ruler of Britannia Prima before 468AD: Are these two sets of options mutually exclusive? There's nothing in the list notes which says so (only the Vortigern and Britannia Prima options cannot be used together). But if so, they're mutually contradictory.

3. Only rule of Britannia Prima before 468AD or Riothamus in Gaul 468AD to 470AD: Once again the word "replace" rears its ugly head. If the C-in-C's pedyt are replaced with Bd (O) Primani does this mean the C-in-C cannot use any Irr Sp (I) pedyt?

Valentinian Victor

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Re: Sub-Roman British - replace or upgrade the pedyt
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 09:13:30 AM »
'1. Only in Britain before 429AD: These options together seem to require replacing all Companions with Reg Cv (I), even though the ally generals commanding them remain Irr Bd (O), which seems odd. Should this upgrade be limited to the C-in-C?

The pedyt are to be "replaced" with Reg Bd (I) and Reg Ax (O). Does this mean no Irr Sp (I) pedyt are to be used in the army? The usual use of the word "replace" in the list books is that none of the replaced troops are used, unless specified (see, for example, the replacement of Patzinak mercenaries by Skythikon in the Book 4 Komnenan Byzantine list).

Are each of the British ally generals required to have at least a quarter of the minimum number of Bd (I) and Ax (O)?'

ACH- Sometimes the Generals do not get an upgrade when their bodyguard cavalry units are themselves are upgraded. I know it may not make sense, but thats history for you!
I think the word 'replaced' is only meant to mean that if you take say 4 Bd(I) and 4 Ax(O) then that reduces the number of Pedyt you can take by 8. That's how it works in other lists.
I can't answer the minimum question as I dont have the Rulebook or Army list books to hand.

'2. Only in Britain before 429AD andOnly ruler of Britannia Prima before 468AD: Are these two sets of options mutually exclusive? There's nothing in the list notes which says so (only the Vortigern and Britannia Prima options cannot be used together). But if so, they're mutually contradictory.'

ACH- I think the word that is important here is 'and'.  When you get a choice from several options such as 'Archers- Ps(O) or Bw(I) 0-24' this means you can take any number of Ps(O) and Bw(I), either all of one type or of any combination of the two. But the word 'and' is very specific and can only be read that you can only take that specific option before 420AD in Britain or only if your the ruler of Britanni Prima before 468AD. So in effect you have two chances of taking the option, which option you take may further limit other options in the list.

3'. Only rule of Britannia Prima before 468AD or Riothamus in Gaul 468AD to 470AD: Once again the word "replace" rears its ugly head. If the C-in-C's pedyt are replaced with Bd (O) Primani does this mean the C-in-C cannot use any Irr Sp (I) pedyt?'

ACH- See my answer to question one. As Riothamus was alleged to have taken between 12-15,000 troops with him to Gaul, many of them  spearmen, then I assume that you can indeed still take the pedyt as Sp(I).



Valentinian Victor

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Re: Sub-Roman British - replace or upgrade the pedyt
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 02:43:50 PM »
Another issue with the Sub-Roman British list is that if you use them as allies in the Patrician List you cannot really do the Riothamus option justice as you get a very limited choice of elements to take.