A QRS for Pips

[landmeister]

Dear all,

I want to make a quick reference sheet for pips spent by troops in GG and I would like your priceless opinion. Only difficult evolutions and irregular ineptness have been considered. Other concepts will be included later.

Please, look at this table and feel free to comment (columns are not considered, just lines).

Type of movement                                                Single element         Group including
                                                         Regular    Irregular*   Regular only     Irregular**
Maximum distance straight ahead                       1            1                       1                1
Not maximum distance straight ahead                       1            1                       2                3
Maximum distance not straight ahead                       1            2                       2              3
Not maximum distance not straight ahead          1            2                       3               4
Maximum distance turning 90? into a column         ---           ---                       1                2
Not maximum distance turning 90? into a column      ---           ---                       2                3
Expanding 90? from a column                      ---           ---                       1                2
Maximum distance turning 180?                      ---           ---                       2                3
Not maximum distance turning 180?                      ---           ---                       3                4

* Other than generals, Cv(O) in GG or Lights in GG or RG.
** Other than generals, Cv(O) in GG or Lights in GG or RG. 

Thank you

[vexillia]

Hi David

I think this is a great idea can I add it to my "DBMM for the Befuddled" series?  I think it will fit nicely in the movement sheet at http://vexillia.blogspot.com/2007/12/dbmm-deployment-movement.html.

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
http://vexillia.ltd.uk
http://vexilliagallery.blogspot.com/
Personal web logs
http://vexillia.blogspot.com/
http://pikeandplunder.blogspot.com/

[landmeister]

No, please! Or at least not yet! 

I'm not one of the "wise men" of this forum. I'm just asking for help and checking. Once checked, yes, I'll be very happy to see it published in your blog.

[landmeister]

I include a better copy as an attached file. I hope it'll be clearer now. 

[vexillia]

OK.  I've been checking your table anyway.  Most of it checks out but so far I am sure that:

• Less than full move does apply to 180 degree turn

I'm less sure about forming columns where you have any entry for a full move.  As this applies to the front corners of the group/line I'm not sure if there are any circumstances where it's possible for both corners to move full.

So far I make the grid to be this:


--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
http://vexillia.ltd.uk
http://vexilliagallery.blogspot.com/
Personal web logs
http://vexillia.blogspot.com/
http://pikeandplunder.blogspot.com/

[vexillia]

I've being doing some basic trigonometry!!!

If a three element wide line of Ps or Ax form a column in good going then both corners move 10 cm which is a full move.  To achieve this the left most element must move forward a full move and the right most element must form the last element in the column.  If the centre element moves forward then neither moves full.

So this makes the grid:



--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
http://vexillia.ltd.uk
http://vexilliagallery.blogspot.com/
Personal web logs
http://vexillia.blogspot.com/
http://pikeandplunder.blogspot.com/

[landmeister]

• Less than full move does apply to 180 degree turn

But you can move just and move your full distance towards the new direction. Remember that distance is measured fron inital front edge to final rear edge. This means that, in effect, you are moving more than your maximum!  

I'm less sure about forming columns where you have any entry for a full move.  As this applies to the front corners of the group/line I'm not sure if there are any circumstances where it's possible for both corners to move full.

One of them moving at full is enough. What is penalized is both moving less. I admit that moving troops like Bd or Sp are a eird case, but troops like Ax, Ps, Bw, etc, have no problem at all.

BTW, I like your new grid.  

[landmeister]

If a three element wide line of Ps or Ax form a column in good going then both corners move 10 cm which is a full move.  To achieve this the left most element must move forward a full move and the right most element must form the last element in the column.  If the centre element moves forward then neither moves full.

Only the front element is relevant. All other elements joining the column are moved behind the head one without measuring distances individually (page 29). 

[vexillia]

• Less than full move does apply to 180 degree turn

But you can move just and move your full distance towards the new direction. Remember that distance is measured from initial front edge to final rear edge.

Your original grid included an extra PIP for moving less than full.  This is excluded  in point iv, second bullet, page 27.  There is a penalty for any 180 turn no matter what the move distance.

[/quote]What is penalized is both moving less. [/quote]

OK.  Agreed and this simplifies things.

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
http://vexillia.ltd.uk
http://vexilliagallery.blogspot.com/
Personal web logs
http://vexillia.blogspot.com/
http://pikeandplunder.blogspot.com/

[vexillia]

If a three element wide line of Ps or Ax form a column in good going then both corners move 10 cm which is a full move.  To achieve this the left most element must move forward a full move and the right most element must form the last element in the column.  If the centre element moves forward then neither moves full.

Only the front element is relevant. All other elements joining the column are moved behind the head one without measuring distances individually (page 29). 

No.  It's not just about measuring move distances involved in actually forming the column.  I'm afraid you also have to measure the move of the front corner elements to ensure that at least one of them moves full otherwise you pay one more PIP.

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
http://vexillia.ltd.uk
http://vexilliagallery.blogspot.com/
Personal web logs
http://vexillia.blogspot.com/
http://pikeandplunder.blogspot.com/

[landmeister]

Your original grid included an extra PIP for moving less than full.  This is excluded  in point iv, second bullet, page 27.  There is a penalty for any 180 turn no matter what the move distance.

Oooops. You're right! Sorry. 

[landmeister]

No.  It's not just about measuring move distances involved in actually forming the column.  I'm afraid you also have to measure the move of the front corner elements to ensure that at least one of them moves full otherwise you pay one more PIP.

Sorry, I can't follow you now  . If the head element of the forming column moves at least one of its front corner at full speed, all other elements are not considered, so you mustn't pay one more PIP.

[vexillia]

No.  It's not just about measuring move distances involved in actually forming the column.  I'm afraid you also have to measure the move of the front corner elements to ensure that at least one of them moves full otherwise you pay one more PIP.

Sorry, I can't follow you now  . If the head element of the forming column moves at least one of its front corner at full speed, all other elements are not considered, so you mustn't pay one more PIP.

From my reading you have to measure the original group corners not the column head to find out if you pay the extra pip.  You measure the column head for the distance forward or sideways.

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
http://vexillia.ltd.uk
http://vexilliagallery.blogspot.com/
Personal web logs
http://vexillia.blogspot.com/
http://pikeandplunder.blogspot.com/

[landmeister]

From my reading you have to measure the original group corners not the column head to find out if you pay the extra pip.  You measure the column head for the distance forward or sideways.

Interesting question. I think I disagree, but the rules are certainly ambiguous and the Commentary is silent  . I-m afraid a nre entrey is needed for this.

One more thing. An Irregular Train/Exp/Naval element spends 3 pips to turn 180 degrees. Othewise, we got a new QRS for Pips 

Thank you

[vexillia]

From my reading you have to measure the original group corners not the column head to find out if you pay the extra pip.  You measure the column head for the distance forward or sideways.

Interesting question. I think I disagree, but the rules are certainly ambiguous and the Commentary is silent  . I-m afraid a new entry is needed for this.

You may be right there.

One more thing. An Irregular Train/Exp/Naval element spends 3 pips to turn 180 degrees.

Not Naval only single land elements.  Not train only single elements of Exp and WWg.

So the grid is:


--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
http://vexillia.ltd.uk
http://vexilliagallery.blogspot.com/
Personal web logs
http://vexillia.blogspot.com/
http://pikeandplunder.blogspot.com/